Eddie Hope discussion

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Eddie Hope discussion

Postby angeliclestat » Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:25 am

I re-read all in one go the Eddie Hope stories we have had up until now - and they read really well together. I really like the character - I know some people are adverse to OCs, but Angel is coming into its own as a comic, with all the changes in AtF, that we need some new blood. So far Eddie and Laura Weathermill are my favourites.


Next issue Eddie meets Gwen, then Spike and the Gunn - so slowly but surely he is being introduced to the gang. How long until he meets Angel and the inevitable fight begins?


Any thoughts?
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Postby Jean-Vic » Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:29 am

Well, sort of pointless Angel fighting him, really. If he's already lost to Gunn and Spike, sort of takes the suspense out of it.

As for Eddie Hope, he is a very good character. One of those grey characters that Ats was always great at creating. And I'd love him to join the AI team permanently, hopefully at the expense of James.
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Postby angeliclestat » Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:06 am

Jean-Vic wrote:Well, sort of pointless Angel fighting him, really. If he's already lost to Gunn and Spike, sort of takes the suspense out of it.
Who says he loses:) Also we don't know if he fights Spike, from what I can make out he seems to team-up with him, and it is through this team-up that he is made more aware of Gunn

As for Eddie Hope, he is a very good character. One of those grey characters that Ats was always great at creating. And I'd love him to join the AI team permanently, hopefully at the expense of James.


Ya me too....James and Dez need to wander off into the great unknown.
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Postby Jean-Vic » Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:10 am

angeliclestat wrote: Who says he loses:) Also we don't know if he fights Spike, from what I can make out he seems to team-up with him, and it is through this team-up that he is made more aware of Gunn

Ya me too....James and Dez need to wander off into the great unknown.


I'm sure BW said that the whole first issue is about Spike and EH fighting, and that when he meets Gunn he gets outsmarted by him. So, if Spike beats him (which he might, or it could end a draw after they realise they need to team up, sort of like in Auld Lang Syne) and Gunn beats him by outsmarting him, what is left for Angel to do. Besides, I doubt EH is part of Angel's story. I see Angel's story focused more on Illyria, Connor and Innovation Labs.
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Postby angeliclestat » Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:39 am

I presumed that after the next issue Innovation Labs would be put out of business. I think that we won't hear much from them after Angel is through with them.
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Postby Jean-Vic » Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:43 am

angeliclestat wrote:I presumed that after the next issue Innovation Labs would be put out of business. I think that we won't hear much from them after Angel is through with them.


Well, the Watcher still has a part to play. And I honestly see Angel and Connor coming to blows in the future over this "Destiny". I get that impression from one of the solicitations, saying that there was a power struggle or something.
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Postby angeliclestat » Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:15 am

Ya - I wonder will she play Wesleys role in future? A hot ex-Watcher.....oh that's gonna spell trouble:)
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Postby Jean-Vic » Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:34 am

angeliclestat wrote:Ya - I wonder will she play Wesleys role in future? A hot ex-Watcher.....oh that's gonna spell trouble:)


When it comes to former Watchers, and this includes Giles, there are none as good as Wesley. But, yeah, she could. The only issue is, we have enough new characters already. We don't need more. 28 pages a month isn't enough.
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Postby Bill Williams » Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:46 am

I try to play fair with all of the characters. In my mind that means that there is room for interesting variations within certain parameters. Let me give an example.

In Season Five of Angel, there is a knocked down and dragged out fight between Spike and Angel in an abandoned theatre. At the end of the fight, Angel is shocked that Spike actually beat him. Now, either he was acting or there was a subtle power shift that happened when he was sitting behind a desk at Wolfram & Hart.

I think it is also true that catching a beating from a person on one day does not guarantee that history will repeat. People tend to learn from mistakes.

Eddie does not show up until the last third of the first issue of the Spike mini-series. It is a Spike book and he is the star. Our imaginary camera follows Spike and Eddie happens to share the spotlight once things get rolling.

I don't want to give away anything, so I won't. But to keep the tone of the Eddie stories consistent, I turn in stories in batches. On Monday, I hope to turn in a document with my next four chapters. It is all building to something. I look at it like I'm writing a graphic novel, just very slowly.

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Postby angeliclestat » Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:58 am

Bill Williams wrote:


I don't want to give away anything, so I won't. But to keep the tone of the Eddie stories consistent, I turn in stories in batches. On Monday, I hope to turn in a document with my next four chapters. It is all building to something. I look at it like I'm writing a graphic novel, just very slowly.

Bill


Do you know how many of these back ups there will be - like up until what issue?Thats me kinda fishing for when Eddie is gonna meet Angel:)
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Postby Jean-Vic » Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:07 am

Bill Williams wrote:I try to play fair with all of the characters. In my mind that means that there is room for interesting variations within certain parameters. Let me give an example.

In Season Five of Angel, there is a knocked down and dragged out fight between Spike and Angel in an abandoned theatre. At the end of the fight, Angel is shocked that Spike actually beat him. Now, either he was acting or there was a subtle power shift that happened when he was sitting behind a desk at Wolfram & Hart.

I think it is also true that catching a beating from a person on one day does not guarantee that history will repeat. People tend to learn from mistakes.

Eddie does not show up until the last third of the first issue of the Spike mini-series. It is a Spike book and he is the star. Our imaginary camera follows Spike and Eddie happens to share the spotlight once things get rolling.

I don't want to give away anything, so I won't. But to keep the tone of the Eddie stories consistent, I turn in stories in batches. On Monday, I hope to turn in a document with my next four chapters. It is all building to something. I look at it like I'm writing a graphic novel, just very slowly.

Bill


I agree with all of the above, but I have said before that with the current ensemble the suspense isn't there like it used to be. Back in the day, Angel was THE fighter of the group. Only he could challenge the top bad guys. Now, Angel is joined by Connor, Spike and most importantly Illyria. So, let's say there is a new Big Bad. Connor is able to beat it. Does that not mean that Angel will most likely beat it? Ergo, no suspense.

I'm not trying to say that because Spike wins Angel will definitely win, but you get my drift I'm sure.

I love the episode Apocalypse Nowish because for the first time ever we actually see the hero lose. Again in Destiny the title character, the hero, loses. It ramps up the suspense a little bit that Angel won't always win. In AN, we all thought that he would do his typical vamping up and beat the Beast. He may have given it a kicking but the Beast got the last word in. We also thought that in Destiny, Angel would step up and beat Spike like he has always done, but again out of left field he was beaten, whether it be because of confidence or like you say, lack of practice, whatever. But still it gives us an air of uncertainty. But if his equals or inferiors beat opponents he has yet to face it isn't such a "Will he won't he" situation.

Still, I think you'll do a good job with this series.
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Postby Bill Williams » Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:38 am

I agree about the fact that heroes need to take some knocks. Without adversity, a hero is just a lucky guy (or gal). Part of the affection we have for Indy in Raiders of the Lost Arc is there because he suffers. A guy punches him in his bullet wound. Ow.

I think part of the charm of the early seasons of Law & Order was the fact that some of the time, the bad guys got away with their crimes. That kind of approach keeps your characters from being a bunch of MarySues.

Just because Eddie gets into a horrific fight with Team Angel, that does not necessarily end those back up stories.

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Postby DihcarEM » Sat Apr 17, 2010 8:40 am

Bill Williams wrote:In Season Five of Angel, there is a knocked down and dragged out fight between Spike and Angel in an abandoned theatre. At the end of the fight, Angel is shocked that Spike actually beat him. Now, either he was acting or there was a subtle power shift that happened when he was sitting behind a desk at Wolfram & Hart.

The same could be said for Spike, out of practice for months(more then Angel because he was still able to fight) and still defeats Angel in the span of one day. There's a moment in the fight where Angel beats Spike back and he casually walks away assuming the fight is over. Then we see Spike get a second win and his unwillingness to give up. Grabbing Angel he says, "You're not gonna win this time." Angel was completely taken by suprise, he had never faced Spike with a soul. Soulles Spike didn't care about losing to Angel(us). Looking at their achievements it had been a long time possible for Spike to beat him. If you can take out slayers then you can probaly take out Angel(us).
I think it is also true that catching a beating from a person on one day does not guarantee that history will repeat. People tend to learn from mistakes.

I agree, it's not guarentee that either will win until ofcourse one further develops(counting on Spike cus that's his mo). Learning from one's mistakes is good but in a fight you can only get worse or better, you can't plan it. Especially on the reason why Angel lost, the other person just wanted it more.[/quote]
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Postby angeliclestat » Sun May 09, 2010 3:42 am

So Eddie runs into Gwen I'm sure theres a reason for this, rather than just a 'by chance' meeting.

I hope Gwen comes back into the main story,,,Still unresolved stories there.
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Postby Nightcraws » Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:30 am

I have to agree with you about Gwen. She is an untapped resource. Heck, she could probably support her own mini series as she has never gotten enough attention in the TV series or the comics.
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