a(nother) femme-bot discussion

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Do or should female autobots exists?

Hell yeah!
12
33%
Yeah, ok, sure.
9
25%
No. Shouldn't have brought Arcee into existence.
2
6%
No, Arcee is the only one.
4
11%
Hell no!
2
6%
Take your poll and your opinion back to Cybertron.
7
19%
 
Total votes : 36

a(nother) femme-bot discussion

Postby Optimus » Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:03 pm

The much anticipated, highly opinionated poll of the Universe!!!

To be or not to be...

Female Transformers!

Here's my hang-up.
I think they pretty much HAVE to exist somewhere, even if few in number, and I have an excellent idea that maybe, someday, should my interest not dwindle... I will expound upon and develope.
For now, I simply link the idea of females to the idea of procreation... and transformers don't necessarily start out small...
I'm thinking along the lines of a mingling of minds or beings (souls might be a better word) that would involve a link and a great feeling of pleasure, but lacking the physical qualities and actions we humans associate with the act of procreation, since, for machinces, there is less feeling associated with phycial touch.... or is there?

Well, that leaves the question... where do babies come from??!!

Well... haven't decided how that might work yet.
I shiver at the idea of a pregnant transformer.

and as for Arcee, maybe she is something different, given the current storyline (since I have not seen an explaination of what Jhiaxus was trying to do by creating her, but that's just me, so maybe someone else knows?).

and then there's.. so that's all females are good for!? (procreation)
well... no... they may and can certainly join the fight if they want to.

Laugh! Make merry! Make your opinion known! Or not!

I'm not the author... an opinion is all I'm entitled to.
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Postby Cattleprod » Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:06 pm

Great Caesar's Ghost, we do not need this debate again. If Tramp sees this, it means death for us all.
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Postby Optimus » Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:17 pm

So I've heard...
or perhaps they'll just kill me??
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Postby Beachcomber » Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:55 pm

This is basically trolling innit?
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Postby DanielW » Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:57 pm

AND now a warning:
IF you have an opinion on this matter, express it as that.
An.
Opinion.

It is not fact. It is not something that must be enforced upon others. It's just your idea on the matter. Express it thusly and then expect it to be discussed by others with possibly other ideas on the matter.
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Postby ExceedinglySphericalDino » Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:10 pm

I've never had a problem with the idea of 'female' robots because I do not see the need to have gender and reproductive function inextricably linked in species other than ours. Hell, it's not even always that linked in ours. But then I've read a lot about transgender and 'third' gender culture and so on, so I am not bothered by people who cross the usual social boundaries with regards to these things.

Perhaps that's why I can separate gender and sex (other than the fact that the two are not the same thing). You could have an abstracted equivalent of 'gender' in non-organic species based on build differences.

I don't know why people automatically assume that having any sort of 'female' robots means pregnant robots and icky romance. Probably because this is a masculine property created by and pitched primarily toward a male audience, even today. So you end up with a 'Not in my sandbox' effect from most of the fandom.

Besides, everybody knows girls have germs.
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Postby lonegamer78 » Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:18 pm

ExceedinglySphericalDino wrote:Besides, everybody knows girls have germs.

Boys have cooties, too! ;P

As for me, I like having female Transformers, even if it brings up a buncha headaches we'd rather avoid. It helps add another dimension to a variety of things. Societal interaction, cultural differences, their perspective of themselves, how we can't place our concepts of gender and sex on them (much less link them), and us having the "third" gender ESD mentioned in regards to those who are transgender.

True, TF does have a heavy masculine touch and is run mostly by guys - ;) - but look at the fan community interactions online - a good percentage of them are female or are run by females.
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Postby DanielW » Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:42 pm

My person theory as to why there are females is... they're not what we'd call females, but rather a different "programming model" of Transformer to the "male". The gender pronouns are used because in English the only way to indicate a fundamental difference is via the use of he/she style pronouns.
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Postby ExceedinglySphericalDino » Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:57 pm

Exactly. There's no need to bring teh babiez into it at all. I once read a fanfic which proposed that TF's had a number of 'gender' classes based on build, function, personality type, etc. Was a very interesting idea.

I do think that for some there is the looming fear of romantic relationships whenever female characters are proposed. Of course, there's nothing stopping them from having romantic relationships now, sans 'female' models, given that there is no reproduction involved, and that according to many, they're technically genderless.

But then most fans want to see their giant robots slug it out, rather than hug it out. :lol:

Of course, the notion that female robots means 'ZOMG girlfriends' to many just goes to show that female characters still get slotted into narrow roles in both official and fan material. It would be nice to have some female characters show up and not be the girlfriend/mothering/seductress stereotype that most of the female characters have been so far.

Simon's re-imagining of Arcee was something, although I still have issues with it (as pointed out earlier and elsewhere). But still it was a start, and a concept for having 'females' in TF's that hasn't been raised before.
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Postby The Rev » Sat Jun 13, 2009 12:56 am

I'm all for boobs in all manner of shape, sizes, colour or race .. be they flesh or metal!

Boobs are like Jello ... there's always room for more! :D
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Postby Matrix » Sat Jun 13, 2009 2:44 am

I really do think they should have gender, yes: it provides a wider range for characterisation and plot development.

You could in theory work around Spotlight: Arcee if you take it as Jhiaxus has made her the first Transformer who has a specific sex rather than gender. That explains neatly why they have gender specific pronouns and they didn't notice that Arcee was a new gender that they'd never considered. It also explains why it's not a mere case of reprogramming herself back to normal: it's a physical change, and thus she's gone mad.

Though I've said that many times before. ;)
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Postby Sprite » Sat Jun 13, 2009 2:46 am

ExceedinglySphericalDino wrote:I do think that for some there is the looming fear of romantic relationships whenever female characters are proposed. Of course, there's nothing stopping them from having romantic relationships now, sans 'female' models, given that there is no reproduction involved, and that according to many, they're technically genderless.

But then most fans want to see their giant robots slug it out, rather than hug it out. :lol:


Actually, I think you might gain a lot of female fans with that. :lol:

ExceedinglySphericalDino wrote:Of course, the notion that female robots means 'ZOMG girlfriends' to many just goes to show that female characters still get slotted into narrow roles in both official and fan material. It would be nice to have some female characters show up and not be the girlfriend/mothering/seductress stereotype that most of the female characters have been so far.


Seconded. Although Beast Wars had a few female characters that actually came across as "normal" characters instead of female stereotypes (well, Airazor, anyway), they still all ended up in some kind of romance (even BM's Stryka had to be someone's concort. Sheesh).

You have a lot of stereotypes in Transformers, but for some reason the female robots always seem to be a stereotype class on their own, or limited to a few options like "the femme fatale", "the romantic interest" etc. For once, I'd like to see a stereotype assigned to a female that doesn't fit in the regular ones. We rarely see a "kid character" female, for instance, or a "racing nut".

Actually, come to think of it, there were some female looking robots walking around during M:O. I've got a theory that particular model got abandoned when the war started, because it really wasn't practical during fighting.

Or maybe it represented a particular mindset that made them all join the Third Faction.
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Re: a(nother) femme-bot discussion

Postby Bludgeon » Sat Jun 13, 2009 4:31 am

Optimus wrote:Female Transformers!
Thumbs up.

Optimus wrote:Here's my hang-up.
I think they pretty much HAVE to exist somewhere, even if few in number, and I have an excellent idea that maybe, someday, should my interest not dwindle... I will expound upon and develope.
For now, I simply link the idea of females to the idea of procreation... and transformers don't necessarily start out small...
I'm thinking along the lines of a mingling of minds or beings (souls might be a better word) that would involve a link and a great feeling of pleasure, but lacking the physical qualities and actions we humans associate with the act of procreation, since, for machinces, there is less feeling associated with phycial touch.... or is there?
I don't think they have to exist, but their existence makes the transformers "species" more interesting concept and unlike other robot franchises.

Optimus wrote:Well, that leaves the question... where do babies come from??!!
There are none. IMO it should work like this: To make a new transformer first a body must be built. This is time consuming, requires some serious engineering skill, and is very taxing on resources, especially to manufacture the spark.
Then, a transformer must link himself with the newly made body and so some sort of spark transfusion to jumpstart the new spark and give the new transformer life. However, if the "partent" is male, the effects can be unstable and malformed life can be created.
If the partent is a fembot, the chance of success is higher, but still not 100%.
If there are two parents, a fembot and a regular transformer, the newborn is a fully developed and operational transformer.

As the new transformer comes to life, its spark undergoes a process of linking itself to his (or her) body. If there was only a male parent and (most likely) the spark has imperfections, it will damage and twist the new body in the process of linking, effectively producing an abomination. This is what happened to the Swarm.

How's that?

EDIT: Oh and almost forgot. THere are no reproductive organs/systems in transformers, no pregnancy and all that mammal baggage. That would be distasteful and unnecessary.

EDIT2: Taking my idea even further, it could be that Arcee isn't the first fembot (as per her spotlight), but merely a first result of Jhiaxus attempt to recreate fembots. Maybe there were all killed during the war and now transformers face extinction, unable to reproduce as intended.
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Postby Damolisher » Sun Jun 14, 2009 4:09 pm

I'm staying right the **** away from this one. We all know how Transformers babies are made. They're, well, made :P.
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Postby KhaN » Sun Jun 14, 2009 7:52 pm

The Rev wrote:I'm all for boobs in all manner of shape, sizes, colour or race .. be they flesh or metal!

Boobs are like Jello ... there's always room for more! :D


Amen
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