Off Topic : First Photos of New Star Trek Movie

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Postby Duo Maxwell » Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:38 am

Ro-Dan wrote:I wouldn't put too much stock into "canon" when it comes to TOS. I mean, that show regularly violated their own canon throughout its three years of existence.


You can find inconsistencies in any version of Star Trek, whether it be any of the TV series or the movies, so simply waving your hands and saying "Star Trek was never any good with consistency anyway" as a defense against potential (since we have yet to see the movie and, thus, any of it's story details) violations of canon is a very weak argument. In fact, ignoring the established canon is the very definition of a reboot.

Given off of what is currently known about the movie, I'm inclined to believe that it isn't simply an aesthetic update of the 23rd century era, rather a re-imagining of Star Trek.
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Postby Ro-Dan » Sun Oct 19, 2008 6:48 am

I can only go on what the filmmakers have said: the film is not a reboot. Certainly there is an aesthetic update but that's to be expected.
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Postby Liebkraft » Sun Oct 19, 2008 7:03 am

While I like the new design I really hate the fact that the Producers can't come around with a proper explanation what this movie should be. If it is a reboot oder re-imagening or whatever they call it, fine, also worked with BSG.
But if the want to do a canon-movie then they should stick with the canon or else they gonna loose lots of fans...
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Postby Ro-Dan » Sun Oct 19, 2008 3:27 pm

But they stand to gain a lot more new ones. Besides, I don't see this film doing any more damage than what's already been inflicted by the TNG movies, Voyager, and Enterprise. If it fails, Trek will be no worse off than it's been before the movie was made. It was already a comatose franchise.

But I don't think the film will fail. You can already see the energy and excitement surrounding it. The new blood on the production end that's been infused into this franchise is evident. I love the fact that these are faces new to Star Trek. Under Berman/Braga Star Trek was dull, nerdy, and boring. The latter shows couldn't project any of the energy of the original series.

With Abrams, Orci, and Kurtzman on board we can at least expect a fresh and hip take on the saga. To me, Star Trek IS Kirk and Spock. And the fact that Nimoy is along for the ride legitimizes this film in the canon.
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Postby Viceroy » Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:49 pm

Gustavo-THANK YOU! The pix look great. I feel Star Trek XI will be one of 2009's summer blockbusters. I liked the shot of most of the main cast as well as seeing Kirk & Spock confronting each other. The movie should look great.

As for a Trek re-imagining a la Battlestar Galactica, I have to disagree. The 1970s Battlestar Galactica was so well trhought of that I felt that reworking the character relationships (ie: Cmdr. Adama & Apollo are supposed to be real close; the current series makes me think Apollo wants to off his own old man) and re-casting the characters' gender (Starbuck & Boomer are babes?!?) seemed wrong.
In regards to Trek XI, I admit I do wish Mr. Abrams' script had allowed for cameos of the Star Trek Enterprise crew. Though with Chris Pike on hand I hope we see Number 1 & Dr. Boyce, too. Ditto Janice Rand.
As Trek XI's setting. That would be interesting to clarify because if its set before Where No Man Has Gone Before, I hope its explained why the Klingons & Romulans are allies as that wasn't hinted until TOS' third season in The Enterprise Incident. Ot course it may be set at Year 4 of the first series, but then Pike's appearance will have to be explained (he's stuck on Talos 4 , if I recall correctly.)
In any event, Star Trek XI looks to be a winner. Can't wait for it to debut on the big screen.
And I concur: Trek IS Kirk & Spock. Along with Archer's merry band, natch! At least Enterprise brought back the action adventure aspect of TOS.
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Postby Liebkraft » Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:05 am

I have to admit that now, having slept a night or two over the pics, I've calmed myself a bit and (who would imagine) actually begin to like this new Movie, because even there seem to be a few contradiction (and that's right, just name ONE Star Trek episode that is perfect in that kind of view) the art looks good and from what I could grasp of the story so far there also seem to be some good and canon explanations.
Eg, maybe the whole crew meets for the first time and after this very first adventure the also part again just to finally end up on the same ship years later (would explain Chekov) and this brigde, I'm not that sure that this is really the Enterprise or just some kind of simulator and even in the first case, it would be nice to see it blow up just to glimps the TOS-version at the end of the movie as the new one installed on the ship :D
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Postby riker2049 » Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:39 pm

I think the actors look fantastic as the characters and I love the uniforms. Karl Urban and Zachary Quinto look amazing as McCoy and Spock.

As for the bridge...yeah, I'm not really sold on it either. I was expecting them to keep the same basic design of the bridge, but just do a modern version of it, more surface detail and what not. Same design-2008 aesthetic. But they've completely changed the design of the bridge to the point that it doesn't even look like it.

Unless the bridge gets completely destroyed at some point in the movie and when it's rebuilt it looks more like the show version...I'd buy that :P
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Postby Duo Maxwell » Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:49 pm

Liebkraft wrote:But if the want to do a canon-movie then they should stick with the canon or else they gonna loose lots of fans...


I, personally, don't have a problem if Abrams wants to do a new take on Star Trek but yes, if they want to pass it off as canon they have to adhere to the established canon, regardless of how it might restrict what they want to do. One thing I have noticed is that the writers consider novels as canon, whereas Paramount (the highest authority when it comes to Star Trek) doesn't consider novels or comics as canon in regards to the TV series/movies. In some cases, it's too bad, as I personally liked the story depicted in Kahless and it would shed new light on who, exactly, the Kahless clone really is.

I would respect Abrams' comments even more if he just came out and said "We're changing things here and there but we're keeping the spirit of Star Trek" or words to that effect. Instead, he's coming along and saying "this movie respects and honours the canon" and then other times he calls it a re-imagining, some call it a reboot while others say it isn't a reboot.

We really don't know what the hell it is.

But that's not going to stop me from going to see the movie (hopefully on opening night) and getting the DVD. I have a feeling I'll enjoy it regardless of how much of the canon it incorporates or ignores.
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Postby Viceroy » Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:11 pm

Duo Maxwell wrote:
Liebkraft wrote:But if the want to do a canon-movie then they should stick with the canon or else they gonna loose lots of fans...


I, personally, don't have a problem if Abrams wants to do a new take on Star Trek but yes, if they want to pass it off as canon they have to adhere to the established canon, regardless of how it might restrict what they want to do. One thing I have noticed is that the writers consider novels as canon, whereas Paramount (the highest authority when it comes to Star Trek) doesn't consider novels or comics as canon in regards to the TV series/movies. In some cases, it's too bad, as I personally liked the story depicted in Kahless and it would shed new light on who, exactly, the Kahless clone really is.

I would respect Abrams' comments even more if he just came out and said "We're changing things here and there but we're keeping the spirit of Star Trek" or words to that effect. Instead, he's coming along and saying "this movie respects and honours the canon" and then other times he calls it a re-imagining, some call it a reboot while others say it isn't a reboot.

We really don't know what the hell it is.

But that's not going to stop me from going to see the movie (hopefully on opening night) and getting the DVD. I have a feeling I'll enjoy it regardless of how much of the canon it incorporates or ignores.


I agree. I like most of the Trek novels. What is odd is that in the old Star Trek Magazine, its noted that Paramount only considers as canonical the novels written by those involved in the production of Star Trek & cites Jeri Taylor's Voyager novels Mosaic & Pathways as examples as she created Voyager.
Paramount should've done was clarify as well if the ff. novels are considered Trek canon as well:
Star Trek The Motion Picture by Gene Roddenberry
Vulcan's Glory by D C Fontana
Star Trek II-IV by Vonda N. McIntyre
Star Trek V-VI, Generations-Nemesis by JM Dillard
The Trek novels by William Shatner (who directed & co wrote the story for Star Trek V)
Not to mention the novelizations of several episodes.
As for retaining the spirit of Trek. I'm cautious. DDP got the GI Joe license in 2001 and they took liberties with the characters base personas and relationships that I find at odds with what was established in the Marvel run from 1982-1994. (Which is why I'm glad Larry Hama will write GI Joe: Origins for IDW.)
I hope Mr. Abrams will retain the core integrity of the characters in the new Trek film. Re-imaginaton perhaps, so long as the characters remain who they are at heart, I'll be satisfied.
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Postby Duo Maxwell » Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:49 pm

One thing I've noticed in the pictures of the new movie is the classic era "wrist braid" seems to be hit-or-miss and most of the characters are in strategic poses which cleverly conceal it, except for McCoy and Kirk. In the shot, Kirk has no braid whatsoever which would usually indicate an ensign.

It's just a minor nit but McCoy's braid gives him the rank of Commander (two solid braids) while during the series he was Lieutenant Commander (one broken braid and one solid braid):

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Image:M ... V_2265.jpg

We don't really know exactly when McCoy was promoted to Commander, only that it was following the televised timeframe and prior to The Motion Picture.
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Postby Ro-Dan » Wed Oct 22, 2008 4:38 am

riker2049 wrote:As for the bridge...yeah, I'm not really sold on it either. I was expecting them to keep the same basic design of the bridge, but just do a modern version of it, more surface detail and what not.

It actually is the same basic design: circular, captain's chair in the center, nav/helm panel in front, science station to captain chair's right.

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You can see in this pic that all of those stations are in their correct positions. It's merely the composition of this shot that throws people off. Kirk's chair is swung to its right toward Spock's station, which creates the illusion that the helm station (where Sulu is seated) appears to be to Kirk's right. The only thing that seems out of place is that new "podium" station which is positioned to Kirk's left.
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Postby riker2049 » Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:26 am

yeah, I'm referring to the podium as well as those glass screens that go from the ceiling to the floor that are behind them. Also the color pallet is just completely opposite.

But ya know, it's one photo...I can't really make a really good judgement til I see the trailer. Even if I'm not sold on the bridge (yet) I'm sure I'm still gonna really enjoy the movie :)
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Postby Duo Maxwell » Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:59 am

The podium area is really the only part of that bridge picture I don't particularly like. The Motion Picture made some alterations to the layout of the bridge, but in that case they didn't look as out of place as this random "let's put a mini-bar... here!" type of placement.

From what little we can see, I can see how everything else could have been updated from the original look. On the overhead segment behind Kirk, it looks like the function of the station has been written, but as far as I can tell it reads "1701 (S)CNC" (the first letter is quite blurry) whereas the station visible beyond Spock appears to be the Environmental station.

I've also noticed that the crewmember (Uhura? It's difficult to tell in that picture) at the station behind Kirk is also wearing the same all black uniform, which would suggest it's not a "captains" uniform. Interestingly, the black uniforms don't seem to sport the Enterprise arrowhead insignia. It makes me think of the Babylon 5 arc where Sheridan removed his uniform jacket to protest the policies Earth Force had adopted.
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Postby riker2049 » Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:08 pm

According to the Entertainment Weekly article, the black shirt represents a cadet uniform. Maybe commanding the Enterprise on this mission is last step before graduating the Academy?

In the EW cover and the other crew photo you can sort of see the emblem on his chest, but it's black so naturally, it's hard to see.
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