Beast Wars Appreciation Thread

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Postby CyclonusArmada » Wed May 02, 2012 6:47 am

HdE wrote:
DanielW wrote: Each character has a defined jounry, it's chock full of politics, and religion, and morality ...


I have never - and I mean NEVER been struck on the whole premise of Beast Wars or Beast Machines...

...but you just TOTALLY sold me on the show!

In all honesty it is the most well written Transformer series ever made. Shift past some of the light hearted filler episodes of the First Season and it gets really good.
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Postby Thunderwing » Wed May 02, 2012 8:10 am

For whatever reason, it seems to be an unpopular opinion, but I feel like Season 3 is the weakest of the three seasons. It has its moments, but a lot of wasted potential.
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Postby CyclonusArmada » Wed May 02, 2012 8:12 am

Season 3 Highlight: Depthcharge. Low Point: Inferno & Quick Strike
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Postby Thunderwing » Wed May 02, 2012 10:14 am

CyclonusArmada wrote:Season 3 Highlight: Depthcharge. Low Point: Inferno & Quick Strike


I'd say low point would be "Go With The Flow".

WORST EPISODE of Beast Wars, by far.
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Postby FDrowned » Thu May 03, 2012 6:34 am

Which one was that (the name doesn't ring a bell)

Season 2 was top notch and whilst Season 3 started off good, it lost it's focus a bit as it went on
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Postby CyclonusArmada » Thu May 03, 2012 6:46 am

It was one of the episodes with the *ugh* protohumans, The little girl one and no it wasn't good. Although 'The Low Road' and 'Call of The Wild' in Season one are a lot worse.
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Postby Thunderwing » Thu May 03, 2012 10:43 am

CyclonusArmada wrote:It was one of the episodes with the *ugh* protohumans, The little girl one and no it wasn't good. Although 'The Low Road' and 'Call of The Wild' in Season one are a lot worse.


The Low Road's AWESOME, man!

Everyone dumps on it because of The Fart (TM), but they also ignore the running Rattrap and Dinobot Odd Couple routine. It has probably my favorite comedy moment in the show in it.

(Dinobot enters, carrying Tarantulas)

DINOBOT: Do not fire, Megatron! I have a hostage!

MEGATRON: Why so you do...

(Megatron blasts Tarantulas)
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Postby CyclonusArmada » Thu May 03, 2012 12:01 pm

Maybe its because of how much I loathe comic relief that light hearted episodes in any series really bug me.
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Postby Cattleprod » Thu May 03, 2012 2:04 pm

Go With The Flow is so egregious because it was created because the higher-ups demanded a more 'family friendly' episode. That's why it has those lessons about basic machines like pulleys and levers. Educational content.

It takes a whole lot more than one bad scene to make something the worst episode ever, the buddy cop stuff in the Low Road was great. And Terrorsaur's unintentional political commentary in Call of the Wild.
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Postby CyclonusArmada » Thu May 03, 2012 2:12 pm

I've always felt Season 3 should have been so very different. With the ending to The Agenda they had a chance to launch into an exciting alternate reality with a potentially whole new cast while still keeping such new additions as Depth Charge and Tigerhawk involved. Optimal Situation reeked of cop out.
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Postby Thunderwing » Thu May 03, 2012 3:37 pm

CyclonusArmada wrote:I've always felt Season 3 should have been so very different. With the ending to The Agenda they had a chance to launch into an exciting alternate reality with a potentially whole new cast while still keeping such new additions as Depth Charge and Tigerhawk involved. Optimal Situation reeked of cop out.


Agreed. I was all set for an alternate future episode after that.

I wrote an in-depth dissection of Season 3 and why it rubbed me the wrong way somewhere...I'll see if I can find it and post it.
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Postby Verno » Thu May 03, 2012 10:37 pm

FDrowned wrote:Actually, whilst we're here. Maybe someone can explain exactly how Rhinox was able to resurrect Primal, and why the same couldn't be done for Dinobot


For anyone that's read my TransWarp story, they'll know that that exact event had larger implications and backstory, stretching back to the end of the Great War. If you'll excuse my indulgence, I'll paste it here:

---

Optimus Primal, in his new Transmetal form, stands in the doorway of a room on board the Axalon. An odd-looking table with arms can be seen in the room. The figures of Rhinox and Rattrap approach.

“They’re impressive new forms”, said Rhinox as he entered the room.

“They’ll certainly take some getting used to”, replied Primal, briefly looking at his new body - his old one currently littering space in a million pieces. “Thank you, old friend”, he said to Rhinox, who simply shook his head at the gratitude. “So, what is it, exactly?” asked Primal, looking at the table.

“You mean besides ugly?” snorted the small Transmetal Maximal.

“Shut up, Rattrap”, Primal replied.

“I don’t know what he called it, but now that you’ve seen what it can do, you understand its danger”, said Rhinox, gathering tools.

“Danger?” questioned Rattrap. “Are you kiddin’? We could bring back anyone! The Beast Wars would be over tomorrow!”

“But if the Predacons got hold of it, they could do the same thing”, said Primal, studying the device.

“Exactly”, said Rhinox, taking a seat at the foot of the table. “Until the tear in Space-Time has healed, feats like this remain possible. The sooner I dismantle it the better.”

“What?!” protested Rattrap.

“Agreed”, said Primal, ignoring Rattrap.

“You just gunna throw away our best hope of endin’ this war anytime soon, huh?” continued Rattrap in his protestation. Optimus and Rhinox simply looked at Rattrap - they didn’t have to say anything. “I know, I know, ‘Shut up, Rattrap’…” he said, rolling his optics as he left the room, carrying on his complaints to himself.

“Who was he?” asked Primal.

“His name was Csirac”, said Rhinox, beginning the disassembly. “He was a Maximal Scientist at the end of the Great War, and a good friend of mine.”

“Well, I owe him my thanks”, said Primal as he left the chamber.

“We all do”, Rhinox said to himself, “more than we know.”

---

IDW made it pretty clear at BotCon that a return to BW is off the agenda (no pun intended) for them for the moment, and I'd hazard a guess that a BM story would be lumped in the same basket.

But maybe someday down the track, they'll come back and breathe some new life into the old girl again. There are still plenty of stories to tell from that era of TF history.
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Postby Thunderwing » Fri May 04, 2012 1:55 pm

Okay, I found it. This was a little analysis of BW Season 3 I wrote a ways back

-

Beast Wars is mostly a sacred cow, but as some may know...I think the third season of BW is kinda weak as compared to the first two in terms of plot.

I've wanted to analyze what exactly I found weak about it for some time. For your consideration, here's a brief episode-by-episode analysis as to WHY I think the overall plotting of BW Season 3 is mostly weak. (And I'm not overlooking many, many strong bits in the season, just focusing on what I found weak).

-OPTIMAL SITUATION-
Not too shabby. A good season premiere. I remember being a bit disappointed though that the whole "Maximals being erased" thing was still "in-progress" and there wasn't going to be a sort of alternate dystopian future episode or something before stuff got set back right. The end of Season 2 really implied a sort of finality to Megatron's triumph, and when we come into Season 3, it almost seemed to me like they rewound the clock the few extra seconds needed for an eleventh hour "undo".

Minor nag...after being clearly vaporized at the end of last season, Inferno showing up looking merely singed was a little off-putting. At the very least, have Megs recover his spark or something and rebuild him as Scavenger. And I know he's a beloved character and all, but I don't see what would be so bad about leaving him dead. He didn't do much of anything for the rest of the season aside from the usual "Yes Royalty" and shoot at Maximals stuff. I understand why it was done; much easier to bring back an old CGI model than create a new one for a new character, but still...

Toy debut- Optimal Optimus

-DEEP METAL-
Good introduction to Depthcharge and nice to add another dimension to Rampage. Don't have much of an issue with this episode except that Depthcharge's solitary lone wolf status is teased here, then somewhat muted/underplayed for the rest of the season.

Toy debut- Depthcharge

-CHANGING OF THE GUARD-
The whole episode focuses on recovering Sentinel...only for Sentinel to be used ONCE more by the Predacons later in the season. A wee bit of a waste.

-CUTTING EDGE-

Tarantulas shows up working for Megatron...with no explanation. Sure, he teamed with him again when Ravage joined up in Agenda, but no one expected him to stay, especially when he was doing just fine on his own.

The Cyber Raptors never show up again, and only serve to tease Dinobot II's introduction. Another waste of a plot thread. You'd think Megs would want to keep some disposable grunts around.

Also, this episode starts the trend (as amusing as it is here) of Optimal Optimus getting his ass dropped right fast in a fight. Primal may not have Prime's spark in him anymore, but he never shied away from utilizing all the power at his disposal in a fight. So any attempt by the writers to make him less powerful comes across as weird.

-FERAL SCREAM 1-
Optimal Optimus gets his ass kicked again in a ludicrous sequence that kicks off with him and Megatron shooting at each other with no more than fifty feet between them and failing to hit for about ten seconds.

Dinobot II's debut is okay, but isn't given proper gravity on the Maximal side of things. "There's a new Dinobot, oh well."

The alien Transmetal II driver that Megatron suddenly has could have been an episode in itself in the obtaining...but we're just made to assume he picked it up any-old-where. The planet's littered with Vok artifacts anyhow, right?

Toy debut- Dinobot II

-FERAL SCREAM 2-

This episode is centered around promoting Cheetor 3.0, but it feels like it's treading water until the very end.

Near everyone suffers some brief retardation and can't make the connection between Cheetor's bizarre behavior and the "mysterious" mutated catlike creature running about.

Optimal Optimus gets dropped again.

Toy debut- Cheetor 3.0

-PROVING GROUNDS-

I have a fondness for this ep, as it characterizes Blackarachnia well and gives us a better introduction to Dinobot II than the previous two eps have. But this episode proves ENTIRELY REDUNDANT for reasons I will get into in a few episodes.

-GO WITH THE FLOW-
An insidious waste. A comedy episode near devoid of comedy. Dinobot II, shown to be a deadly opponent only last episode, is reduced to Waspinator/Quickstrike status in one bit. Megatron's plan is completely moronic as well, very shades of G1 Megs, actually. The worst episode of Beast Wars.

-CROSSING THE RUBICON-

Not too bad, but makes Proving Grounds completely redundant. Blackarachnia had resolved to remain herself and be happy with how she was at the end of that episode, but immediately seems to go back on that with her Transmetal II experiment. Kinda reeks of Hasbro interference. Everything else is okay, her "death" is touching, and Silverbolt's quest to avenge her is compelling.

Complete lack of explanation WHY the Transmetal driver resurrects and upgrades her. It's Hasb- errrrr, Vok magic. Move on.

And poor Rampage gets the tables turned on him. In his debut episode, Silverbolt and Blackarachnia jobbed to him to show how badass he was. This episode, he gets totally jobbed by TM2 Blackarachnia. She physically beats him up. COME ON.

Toy debut- Blackarachnia 2.0

-MASTER BLASTER-
Optimal Optimus is disabled again. Then beaten up later in the episode.

Megatron sends Dinobot II after Depthcharge, who isn't present at the base. This conveniently removes them from the plot and it never comes up again.

Megs becomes an apparent TM2 with no explanation. Shouldn't he have just become a more powerful "natural" Transmetal? But Transmetal IIs are the current toyline, soooo...

Toy debut- Megatron 3.0

-OTHER VICTORIES-
Several loose ends are tied up because the show is ending! Hurry! But honestly, I think this episode did an okay job about it overall.

After administering his prerequisite debut ass-kickage, Megatron 3.0 immediately receives some by Tigerhawk.

Optimal Optimus gets disabled again.

Toy debut- Tigerhawk

-NEMESIS 1-

Logic error...Depthcharge and Optimal Optimus are right next to a bomb that Megatron has left for them...but when it explodes, all it does is grievously injure Silverbolt, who was apparently standing much farther away and behind them.

Depthcharge/Rampage's rivalry concludes well enough. But dude, they haven't fought since Changing of the Guard, huh? But unfortunately there are more important things to worry about and their deaths are somewhat glossed over.

Tigerhawk, our newest character, is reduced to an exposition sounding board for Primal to explain the Nemesis.

-NEMESIS 2-
Lots of animation errors in this episode for the observant viewer...possibly the largest amount of visible animation errors in the entire series in this episode. Clearly done in a rush.

Optimal Optimus gets his ass thoroughly kicked throughout.

Tigerhawk dies. A variety of factors contributed to this- Hasbro's waffling on releasing the toy, no apparent plan for him to be in Beast Machines, a need to show the Nemesis as a serious threat, and Simon Furman writing this episode. (It's said that Furman's first question upon taking the Beast Wars assignment was "Who can I kill?") In whatever case, he dies well, if still too soon.

Poor Cheetor, Rattrap, Silverbolt, and Blackarachnia get virtually nothing to do.

Dinobot II's personality shift is poorly explained and understood to this day. Perhaps if we got "Dark Glass" it would have been better, but...nope.

Important stuff like the original Megatron's spark being returned and the obtaining of a Transwarp cell to get home is cut to get the show ended as fast as possible.

-

ANYHOO, it's clear Season 3 had a lot more Hasbro interference than previous seasons, and that's probably why it suffered so much. It had probably the largest ratio of episode to "new toy debuts", and many standalone eps don't serve any purpose in the end.

It had a lot of good moments, and I may come back and record my favorite moments of Season 3 as well.

But for me, this was my least favorite season of Beast Wars.
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Postby CyclonusArmada » Fri May 04, 2012 2:07 pm

This was what I meant before. If they'd had the guts to make season 3 (or at least a three to five part story) set in the 'Decepticon Victory' future they could have actually utilized far more of the unaired toyline designs. There were some excellent Transmetals (Scavenger, TM Waspinator, Airazor & Terrorsaur etc) and even some TM2's such as Iguanus, Scourge, Ramulus and Cybershark that could have been the new cast and really built off of the strengths of Season 2.

Instead we got a middle of the road season and Japan got a horribly mutilated version of Season one. :roll:
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Postby Verno » Fri May 04, 2012 5:21 pm

You're spot on. A lot of details in Season 3 were rushed over, poorly explained or simply not explained at all. This has left a lot of opportunity for future story-telling in this time frame from the loose ends that were left.

However, IDW have somewhat shot themselves in the foot if they were to one-day re-tackle BW, as they used every single non-show character in The Gatheing and The Ascending, except TM2 Cybershark, who was shown in his non-TM form instead.

Unless they do a reboot or make the events in a different universe to the previous comics, they're without recognised characters to use.
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