Duke's Promotion / Change in GIJOE Command Structure

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What Do You think of Duke's Promotion?

Duke's in charge, it's about time!
1
10%
Someone else should have got the promotion.
2
20%
They should have brought in Gen. Colton, Flagg or another General
4
40%
Hawk should have stayed.
3
30%
 
Total votes : 10

Duke's Promotion / Change in GIJOE Command Structure

Postby Tiger71 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:52 am

Hawk - Gone
Promotes Duke to Colonel and gives him Command of the unit.
:? :? ?????


Ok, apparently it is not just me that thinks this promotion should never have happened. I know there is some precedent, Audie Murphy was promoted from Staff Seargent to 2nd Lt. during WWII, but traditionally, Battlefield Commisions consist of a singular rise in rank, not multiple (E-6 to O-6).

If Duke had been an officer at the time this happened, I think most people would have let it slide. But Duke was a Staff seargent, not a Lieutenant or even a Captain (Which wasn't that Scarlett's Rank?) Even if Duke had been an officer before, but had been somehow demoted, maybe it could have been portrayed as a restoration of his rank and a promotion. That didn't happen either. Although we didn't see most of them in the reboot series, those of us that have been around for a while know that there were more officers in the ranks of Joe that could have taken command of the unit.

Granted, Hawk was in command of a top secret unit that doesn't exist in the normal chain of command. That may grant him certain liberties, such as we saw when he threatened Scarlett with the Joe's version of a court-martial. (Which I thought that whole storyline seemed somewhat incoherent at times, but that's a topic for another time.) I have a hard time believing that someone who has risen to the rank of general would throw out military tradition and procedure to play favoritism. If Duke was truly his second in command, then he should have given him an officer's rank way before that. As it was, we never saw much of Hawk's command staff. Hawk would have had an officer under him that would have been able to command portions of the unit in combat. The closest we saw of this was Flint and Scarlett. Even if Duke was a better leader than either of them, he should not have been promoted over them. If what we saw is the way Hawk operated, then he was inefficient as a leader and should have never been given that command. Just looking at his command structure alone, Hawk did not allow for continuation of command should he be incapacitated. It would have left an Intelligence Officer in charge. (At least I believe so, since she was the most senior rank that we saw within the command stucture. Yes, I am sure there were others. I would have mentioned Keel-Haul, but I am not sure he is an Admiral in this universe, at least I didn't think he was treated as one.)

I believe I am correct when I say that the majority of the readers of GIJoe have either been in or around the military in one way or another. When something this far out of the ordinary happens, many fans are going to cry "FOUL" because it never would have happened.

Even if Hawk wanted to do this, he would have had to justifiy this promotion to his superiors, who would have told him he was nuts, no matter how competent Duke may be as a leader. I mean can you picture that meeting? "OK, I am going to hand over command of a highly classified unit over to a staff sergeant, but don't worry I will promote him to a colonel first." The politicians might not squawk, but I am sure Hawk had to at least answer to the Head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff or someone else in the Pentagon. I really believe that would not have set well with them, to see military procedure and tradition tossed out so easily. It is my understanding that the higher in rank you go, the more stringent the military establishment becomes.

Sorry IDW, but i think you goofed on this one.

But...

If anyone has information that could shed light on how this may be plausible, please share with us, because until then I cannot see how this could be.

I want to caution everyone that has taken this event and been quick to blame Dixon. Writers do not always get to write freely what they want. (Just ask Brandon Jerwa about that.) This change in command structure effects all three comics, so I am sure it was discussed in meetings with all of the writers and editors at IDW, maybe even with Hasbro. I don't know who suggested it, but I am sure that the blame for its implementation doesn't rest with just one person.
Last edited by Tiger71 on Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Mamu_Nestor » Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:16 pm

IMO if done right they couple have given it to someone else and made that work, but the best choice would have been to bring in another Joe General from our mythos Flagg, Colton or even someone new... All other options aer kind of out there for me. Duke could have been put in charge if they had done it better by building him up as a creditable leader. Throughout this series he has been a 3 or 4th stringer, incapable of taking the lead. Duke is a mamby pamby follower in this series not a serious hard nosed First Shirt... Scarlett lead him around without even trying. Several times he was given priority without much logic IMO. Sometimes subverting Scarlett. Maybe they were trying to show the sexism in the military IDK. DUKE has not been written as a leader in this universe. Maybe that is why he was still a staff Sargent and not a First Sargent.... but now he is suddenly a Colonel. Dixon has one shot left with me and that is with the first issue of Snake eyes and Storm Shadow... Otherwise I'm done with his version of G.I. Joe.
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Postby Mamu_Nestor » Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:23 pm

Wait Tiger71 may have a point here... Hawk has gone off his rocker... he has completely lost his mind... that explains everything, because now the pentagon can come in and say whoa wait a minute now, here's is what's really gonna happen...
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Postby Veritas » Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:21 pm

Honestly, the move baffled me completely. On the one hand, it could be a goof - or pressure to raise Duke's visibility with the movie coming out. But it's one heck of a goof to make, and one that never should have gotten through the first-string editing. In that light - unless we want to seriously insult someone, and I would prefer not to -we have to assume that this was done for a very specific reason, in all its flawed reality.

We saw, back in Snake Eyes: Cobra Command #9, Hawk essentially ordering Duke to take command, a scene that puzzled me, not simply because of the nasty "old boys club" feel to it but because after that, it was never mentioned again. The last we heard of it, Duke was to tell Scarlett of the change in command - but throughout CC, she's seemed to be the one in charge. Then, BAM, we get Duke promoted and Scarlett ordered to toe the line - as if she would do anything otherwise (which seemed to run entirely counter to what followed in the conversaton - that touchy-feely comforting thingummy).

If I had to hazard a guess? Hawk did it to set Duke up for a fall. Duke screws up, Hawk get shunted back to command. That's the "manipulative bastard" angle circa Chuckles' in the last issue.

OR... if Duke WAS promoted by that senator guy who was playing solitaire and then hobnobbing with the Baroness... then HE is setting Duke up, feeling that without Hawk, this untested leader will be sure to screw up in a way that could justify the entire elimination of the Joes.

The latter actually makes the most sense to me; Cobra's pet politician would have a vested interest in NOT bringing in another general. He also wouldn't want Scarlett moved up - she's successfully, more or less, seen the Joes through the CCW and is a strong leader. There's also the psychological angle to it - a promotion of someone apparently unsuited to command, or undeserving of such a wildly unorthodox promotion could create a schism within the ranks - dissent within the Joes as to who SHOULD be in charge, amplified as things start going wrong in spades.

Congressboy also doesn't have the power, apparently, to shut things down 100% - so the best he can do is prop things to fall in the direction he wants. So... wha'cha think?

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Postby Tiger71 » Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:23 am

Veritas wrote:Honestly, the move baffled me completely. On the one hand, it could be a goof - or pressure to raise Duke's visibility with the movie coming out. But it's one heck of a goof to make, and one that never should have gotten through the first-string editing. In that light - unless we want to seriously insult someone, and I would prefer not to -we have to assume that this was done for a very specific reason, in all its flawed reality.

We saw, back in Snake Eyes: Cobra Command #9, Hawk essentially ordering Duke to take command, a scene that puzzled me, not simply because of the nasty "old boys club" feel to it but because after that, it was never mentioned again. The last we heard of it, Duke was to tell Scarlett of the change in command - but throughout CC, she's seemed to be the one in charge. Then, BAM, we get Duke promoted and Scarlett ordered to toe the line - as if she would do anything otherwise (which seemed to run entirely counter to what followed in the conversaton - that touchy-feely comforting thingummy).

If I had to hazard a guess? Hawk did it to set Duke up for a fall. Duke screws up, Hawk get shunted back to command. That's the "manipulative bastard" angle circa Chuckles' in the last issue.

OR... if Duke WAS promoted by that senator guy who was playing solitaire and then hobnobbing with the Baroness... then HE is setting Duke up, feeling that without Hawk, this untested leader will be sure to screw up in a way that could justify the entire elimination of the Joes.

The latter actually makes the most sense to me; Cobra's pet politician would have a vested interest in NOT bringing in another general. He also wouldn't want Scarlett moved up - she's successfully, more or less, seen the Joes through the CCW and is a strong leader. There's also the psychological angle to it - a promotion of someone apparently unsuited to command, or undeserving of such a wildly unorthodox promotion could create a schism within the ranks - dissent within the Joes as to who SHOULD be in charge, amplified as things start going wrong in spades.

Congressboy also doesn't have the power, apparently, to shut things down 100% - so the best he can do is prop things to fall in the direction he wants. So... wha'cha think?

Gosh, I love being a character junkie... :)


Good Theories!

I am still curious about how much of the Military Higher Echelons are involved in the GIJoe chain-of-command. I never quite bought into the "We only answer to the President scenario". I always felt there had to be someone in the Pentagon that they answered to before the Secretary of Defense and the President. Considering Veritas' scenario, maybe we have a Cobra plant in the Pentagon higher-ups as well? Might explain why they tied the Joes to the U.N. and limited their activities so extensively. :shock:

I guess my reaction to Duke's promotion is based more on real world expectations of a purely military structure, not deliberate manipulation by enemy forces and politicians to create failure. If that is the angle they're playing, maybe I can go with it. As long as they expose it and set things right! Maybe Duke will get his true rank back, E-8. (Although if he had started this series with his movie rank of Major, this would have all been fine.) 8)
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Postby shanecdavis » Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:44 am

Tiger71 wrote:...(snip)Maybe Duke will get his true rank back, E-8. (Although if he had started this series with his movie rank of Major, this would have all been fine.) 8)

I've been thinking about this topic since last month and either I totally forgot (since I've only seen the movie once) or I totally missed where Duke was a Major in RoC. That's it! I had suspected that IDW was making changes so the comic would be more in line with the movie, and this just pretty much confirms it for me.

Since Duke was a Major in RoC I guess it's not a big stretch to assume he will be cast as a full bird in Retaliation. Hawk won't be in the movie and now Hawk is gone from the team in the comic. Colton is going to show up in the movie, and I will bet my Marvel collection that either this month or next Colton will show up in the comic. The team is almost wiped out and are considered renegades in the movie, and we are seeing major cutbacks to the Joes and Zartan providing a smear campaign against them in the comic.

While I don't think we are seeing the comic turn into the movieverse, we are seeing enough parallels that when someone who watched the movie decides to pick up the comic they will be able to follow the overall plot well enough to keep reading.

I don't know if this promotion was Dixon's decision, IDW's decision, or Hasbro's. We know Hasbro forced Mr. Hama to kill off CC because of the dreadful cartoon movie, so it wouldn't surprise me if we are seeing a similar mandate. Hmmmmm, sounds like a great question to ask our very own senior editor John Barber.
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Postby Veritas » Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:32 am

Makes sense to me! Though... there should have been a smoother way to make the change, even a footnote - "Hey, readers - Just FYI, we've changed Duke's rank."

As far as alignment goes, we're assuming a lot here, namely that the movie will be good. If it's another turkey... ::shudders:: And personally, I hope we don't see TOO much movieverse infiltrating the comics. I know that the series is owned by the toy company... but goodness.

I like non-ninjafied Roadblock the way he is in the comics. And... as good as the new movie looks, and as much as I like Lady Jaye and Flint... I miss Scarlett, Stalker, and the others. I hope they don't vanish forever. :(

Edited to remove my ooops in referring to the ethnic background of Dwayne Johnson. Many apologies, and thanks for the catch, shanecdavis.
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Postby shanecdavis » Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:54 am

Ummmmm Veritas, you might be confusing Dwayne Johnson with someone else. Not only is he not white, he's not even half white. His father is black and his mother is Samoan. There are only two other actors that I would have seen cast as Roadblock - Ving Rhames or Michael Clarke Duncan. Since neither of them have the charisma that Johnson does, Roadblock would have been more of a secondary character, which would have changed the complexity of the entire movie. We will soon see if centering the movie around Roadblock/Johnson was a good call or not.
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Postby Veritas » Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:26 pm

shanecdavis wrote:Ummmmm Veritas, you might be confusing Dwayne Johnson with someone else. Not only is he not white, he's not even half white. His father is black and his mother is Samoan. There are only two other actors that I would have seen cast as Roadblock - Ving Rhames or Michael Clarke Duncan. Since neither of them have the charisma that Johnson does, Roadblock would have been more of a secondary character, which would have changed the complexity of the entire movie. We will soon see if centering the movie around Roadblock/Johnson was a good call or not.


Whoops. :oops: Color me majorly embarrassed. No offense intended to anyone. Fixed my post... though I still prefer non-Arashikage Roadblock. I could go with either of the actors you cite - I'm not sure if the lack of charisma is the casting of both as the stalwart, stolid sorts... your quintessential Big Guy... or if both genuinely lack range.

Ving Rhames will always be "Cobra Bubbles" to me...


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Postby Mamu_Nestor » Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:19 pm

it was Captain Hauser in the movie...
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Postby Tiger71 » Wed May 02, 2012 8:45 am

Mamu_Nestor wrote:it was Captain Hauser in the movie...


The file cards for the Movie version of Duke say "Major", but since I haven't watched the movie in a while I won't dispute that the movie may have said something different. :wink:
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Postby Rockhammer » Fri May 11, 2012 2:48 pm

Tiger71 wrote:
Mamu_Nestor wrote:it was Captain Hauser in the movie...


The file cards for the Movie version of Duke say "Major", but since I haven't watched the movie in a while I won't dispute that the movie may have said something different. :wink:


I can't remember if he was promoted during the movie, but I do remember he was a Captain in the flashback to when he and the Baroness were together. I'm guessing he was a major in RoC "present time" and a Cap. in the RoC flashback.
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Postby Mamu_Nestor » Fri May 11, 2012 9:57 pm

Ok here's what I know... He is listed as 0-3 Captian for the movie everywhere except his action figures file card. In flashback and current scenes he is referred to as Captian... But he is wearing the rank of a major... Big time continuity errors...
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