G.I. Joe (Vol. 2) #12 Preview/Discussion *SPOILERS*

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G.I. Joe (Vol. 2) #12 Preview/Discussion *SPOILERS*

Postby Numero99 » Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:55 am

Image A Image B
Image RI

G.I. Joe: Ongoing Vol. 2 #12

Creative Team:
Chuck Dixon (w) • Will Rosado (a) • Will Rosado, Steve Ellis (c)

Synopsis:
COBRA COMMAND AFTERMATH! It’s a new day for the JOEs—as they crawl from the ruins of COBRA COMMAND, they find a new status quo… and a change in command! Who will lead the Joes into this new, deadlier, downsized future? SCARLETT leads and op into one of the wildest wildernesses on the planet to uncover a COBRA facility that threatens the very balance of the universe as we enter… DEEP TERROR!
FC • 32 pages • $3.99

Black & White Will Rosado cover!

Bullet points:
In the aftermath of COBRA COMMAND, everything changes!
The JOEs face a new villain—a slashed operating budget!
Who will lead the JOEs?!

Preview
http://www.freakinawesomenetwork.com/2012/04/joetwelve/


Yay! Will Rosado's back! I love this guy's art!

EDIT: Covers and poll added. - Shane
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Postby Eagleyes » Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:46 am

ugh....

more unknown, non-figure character deaths to "care" about?
Snakeyes thought "dead" again? Couldn't he be MIA instead of KIA?
and clone Zartan?

sorry, guys, that's 3 strikes and i'm out of interest for this issue
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Postby Mamu_Nestor » Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:37 am

Eagleyes wrote:ugh....

more unknown, non-figure character deaths to "care" about?
Snakeyes thought "dead" again? Couldn't he be MIA instead of KIA?
and clone Zartan?

sorry, guys, that's 3 strikes and i'm out of interest for this issue


The Joe's will always have greenshirts and greenshirts have names too. As for Zartan he doesn't bother me that much except for the Odo/T2 like powers they gave him in this issue...what's next he will turn into a coffee table to assassinate someone? And Helix had to report Snake Eyes as KIA to not have him labeled as AWOL...and for her limited understanding of the situation he is dead to her.
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Postby Veritas » Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:19 am

Here's the thing about Helix, though... she's not behaving true to form for an autistic. Autistics don't have TROUBLE with emotions; it's that their emotions are compartmentalized. They don't connect with each other.

Temple Grandin, who is probably the best known functioning autistic today, is a university professor and explains that the frontal lobes of autistic adults are still not as developed as "neurotypical" (my word) adults. As a result, they aren't ambivalent about people; she can't imagine loving and hating the same person at the same time. Autistics - even high-functioning autistics like Helix - react to emotional issues more like children or animals (no slur meant - this is Grandin's take); they feel strongly, react strongly, but don't mix emotions. They can be furious at a person one moment and fine the next; the emotions don't get twined.

That said, my high-functioning autistic students - granted, they are adolescents - also hold grudges like no tomorrow. They can remember a slight as clearly two years later as they did the day it happen, and will refer BACK to that as proof that so-and-so is NOT their friend, and doesn't deserve to be treated well. If an autistic kid hates you, you KNOW it, and it's going to take an awful lot to change his mind.

So I've got an issue with Helix reporting Snake Eyes as KIA. That ISN'T how an autistic works. One, they don't tend to be good liars - or, they're frighteningly good because they believe their lie as truth. No middle ground.

Logically, if this is the step that Helix made, something HAD to happen between Point A (witnessing the "betrayal") and Point B (reporting him KIA) that made her willing to cover for him.

Now, if Helix's view of Snakes has not been irrevokably shattered by his series of "betrayals" - leaving her behind on the plane, using her as bait, knocking her out, leaving her in the jungle - then she IS acting true to form. If an autistic adult cares for you, they will back you until Kingdom Comes. However, Dixon has written Helix as beginning to realize that Snakes was using her - she's angry at him. Not only is she angry at him, he has not been given a chance to redeem himself; the final break, turning his back on the Joes, should have shattered Helix's hero-worship for good and for all.

Even when she pulled a gun on him, that wasn't true to form. Autistics DON'T GET CONFLICTED. It wouldn't be, "I could shoot you" - it would be "I don't WANT to shoot you, but I'm not letting you get past me." If she didn't shoot him, she'd have gone after him hand-to-hand. And if he got away, if she DOES still care about him, she would have FOLLOWED him, not returned to Baxter. Her breaking with Snakes should indicate that her view of him has irrevokably changed.

Sigh. Sloppy characterization. I'm not a fan.
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Postby Veritas » Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:24 am

Mamu_Nestor wrote:Helix had to report Snake Eyes as KIA to not have him labeled as AWOL...and for her limited understanding of the situation he is dead to her.


That's very abstract for an autistic... particularly the way she phrased it to Scarlett.
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Postby Mamu_Nestor » Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:39 am

OK then let's use what you said (exuding past history) In This instance she hates him so much for leaving she can only see him as dead... I dunno, but I do agree that her behavior has been inconsistent.
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Postby Veritas » Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:42 am

Mamu_Nestor wrote:OK then let's use what you said (exuding past history) In This instance she hates him so much for leaving she can only see him as dead... I dunno, but I do agree that her behavior has been inconsistent.


Trying to puzzle out how this could work... I agree, this is probably the tactic that Dixon is taking. However, as an autistic, she wouldn't necessarily LIE about it. An autistic is blunt. She'd more likely say to Alpine and Iceberg, "You guys were right. He took off. He doesn't need me. He doesn't need US. F*** him."

Ah well. It happens.
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Postby Numero99 » Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:40 am

I think the key phrase for Helix is "The Snake Eyes we knew is dead..."

That to me spoke volumes about how Helix is dealing with SE teaming up with the enemy.
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Postby Veritas » Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:08 am

Okay... looking at it from the perspective of grief is probably the key. If Helix treats it as a death, then the parameters of behavior would be different; I don't *agree* with taking this tactic, but it is what it is. Here's something that helped me to rationalize her behavior, but if the character development stops here and she just forgives him when he comes back, I am going to be VERY ticked off. Don't create an autistic character and then expect to be able to write her like a neurotypical... it's not fair, it's not right, and it's just not good writing. The second bold section is what I'd expect to see - in some form - as Helix progresses; she's not a ROBOT. She needs to deal with this betrayal in some way other than compartmentalizing it... because that doesn't work for autistics any more than it does for the rest of us. At the very least, she'll need to treat Snake Eyes, upon his return, as an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT PERSON.

Personally, if Helix is to be written true to the autistic spectrum, this event is a major trauma for her and should unbalance her character in some way... which would probably make her more interesting to read.

"It is difficult to predict anyones reaction to the death of someone close to them, and individuals on the autism spectrum will be no different. Each person's reaction will be unique to them. You may not recognise the person with ASD's displays of grief, but any difference in their behaviour may be an expression of their confusion and loss. Howlin (1997) describes how the "person with autism may seem apparently unconcerned, even by the death of someone very close,... [they may focus on] seemingly callous issues, such as how much they may have been left in the will." She then outlines one particular adult's reaction to her fathers death, describing how she "began to embark on bizarre monologues about punishment and pain, murder and the police", (Howlin 1997) though her father's death had not involved the police in any way. These behavioural changes may not coincide with the death of a relative or friend, but may occur perhaps three months, six months, or a year afterwards. This will need to be recognised so these behaviours are appropriately understood and supported. (See 'Understanding Behaviour' information sheet). You may notice a reoccurrence of these or other behaviours at significant dates after the persons death; for example, at an anniversary, Christmas or birthdays."

-http://www.autism.org.uk/living-with-autism/at-home/death-bereavement-and-autism-spectrum-disorders.aspx
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Postby Mamu_Nestor » Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:07 am

Nice post. I'm not trying to justify his writing, just trying to rationalize with the current situation.

After reading the whole issue... All I have to say is... Dixon should never be able to write military fiction ever again... An E6 to an O6?... If Duke had been an E8 or so then maybe a commission of an O2 or O3 maybe... But Ace, keel Haul, hell even Cutter, Wild Bill, and Flint are higher rank and closer to the position... If they had gone with Captain Hauser (like from the movie) then the promotion would still be outrageous but more likely..

I didn't mind the Zartan as the face of cobra. I wonder if they will use the Adam DeCobray moniker.
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Postby Eagleyes » Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:48 pm

I bought it anyway...

...the ending was better than the beginning
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Postby Machete Phil » Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:55 am

Wow, after what I thought was a pretty amazing “Cobra Command”story, it looks like “Aftermath” is off to a really weak start.

For starters, even though I have no problem with unnamed greenshirts being used as cannon fodder, I thought that it was pretty lame to devote several pages to eulogize multiple greenshirt characters who – to my knowledge, at least – never even showed up on a single page of the comic before we hear that they are dead. It’s one thing to introduce a greenshirt and then kill them. But to completely skip the killing of the random greenshirt and then just cut directly to the eulogy? That’s pretty lazy.

From there, Zartan shows up… which is never a good thing in the reboot continuity. His rebooted origin is just such a letdown, it really pretty much wrecks the story - for me, at least - anytime he shows up. And why would they need Zartan to be the public face of Cobra, anyway? From what we’ve seen to date, the guy (or should I say elastic-clone) doesn’t really have any personality traits that would lend himself well to being a well-versed, knowledgeable and articulate PR frontman. Mostly, he’s just a cold-blooded killer who giggles a lot. Not much of a public speaker. So I don’t get it.

Then, we find out that Duke gets promoted from a sergeant without a commission directly to a colonel. Now I’ll admit that I am no expert when it comes to military ranks and hierarchy, but as far as I know, that wouldn’t/couldn’t ever happen. I’d love to hear from any fans who actually know a bit more about this kind of stuff if a promotion like this could ever occur… maybe things are different in special forces units or something.

Next, we find out that Cobra has a bunch of sleeper agents in government roles, ranging from bureaucrats to congressmen and senators. Didn’t have a huge problem with this, other than this kind of thing seems more like Larry’s territory over in ARAH than something we should be seeing in the – outside of Zartan and Destro – more “realistic” reboot. Just don’t know what the motivation would be for all of these folks who were born and raised in America to suddenly turn on their government and country and pledge their loyalty to Cobra. Maybe ONE sleeper agent, that might work… but a whole slew of them seems pretty darn unlikely, even for a comic book.

Then, we discover that a key plot thread for the foreseeable future is going to be about how the joe team is able to cut corners and make due with a slashed budget. In some ways, I like this idea, because it’s a real-world problem that seems pretty relevant with the current financial state of our country… but in other ways, I just don’t know how excited I’m going to be to read the ongoing adventures of a joe accountant named Spreadsheet. Almost seems like I’m reading a joe parody in Mad magazine or something.

And finally, we discover that Cobra is going to start a PR campaign to discredit the joe team and potentially turn them into enemies of the state. I don’t really have any issue with this potential plot thread… OTHER than to say that the idea well must really be running low over at Hasbro and IDW. This will literally be the FOURTH different joe continuity where we end up seeing the joes as fugitives/on the run from the government in less than two years. First Renegades, then ARAH, then the reboot, and soon to be seen in the upcoming movie sequel. If this were the first time I’d seen it, I might think it was an interesting concept… but I’ve ALREADY seen it… way too many times. I’d rather they came up something new, instead.
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Postby Mamu_Nestor » Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:49 pm

You can seen military rankings here...
http://www.militaryfactory.com/ranks/index.asp

and 2012 pay grades here
http://www.militaryfactory.com/military_pay_scale.asp

You can see that an E6 makes from 2317 to 3589 /mo depending on how long they've been in...1-40 years.

An E8 at the minimum time (Over 8 Years) makes 3854/mo so being promoted to an O2 (First Lieutenant Army) with over 8 years as 4509/mo would be a decent promotion. An O6 (Full Bird Colonel) makes a minimum of $5963/mo. That's a hell of a promotion especially without any officer training schools... The only time that the military promotes Enlisted to officers is in extreme situations. They did it in Vietnam but the enlisted got ranks like 2nd Lieutenant (O1) maybe 1st Lieutenant (O2)...
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Postby Machete Phil » Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:28 pm

has there ever been a single instance that anyone is aware of in the history of the american military where a sergeant was promoted to a colonel?
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Postby Mamu_Nestor » Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:13 pm

It appears that SOP for gaining a commission involves either a battle field commission of appointment through a board... And it goes from E-(what ever) to O-1 just about every time if not every time. Audie Murphy got promoted from a staff sergeant (E-6) to a 2nd lieutenant (O-1)

I would say no, not ever in the history of any military has a NCO been made a high ranking Commissioned Officer in one jump.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battlefi ... #section_1

http://www.military.com/MilitaryCareers ... om,00.html
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