Spike #2: Reviews, Reactions, Spoilers.

Drop any comments about Joss Whedon's Angel, Spike or any of the related titles in this space, whether you have a soul or not.

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Postby Veiriti » Wed Nov 24, 2010 6:02 am

I’d like to say something and about Spike 2- I loved it… well, just like DD I loved Illyria’s story more because of the same reasons and I have to admit I loved first Spike's issue better – and I wanted to see more about Dru and the mysterious man John. Actually I didn’t understand who has killed John’s family – Spike (and Dru?) or John did it by himself (the prison panel). And why John wants to kill Spike so badly. Why he has a relationship with Dru? It that a part of his revenge? I hope we will find out soon.
I’d like to share here my thought about the anti-slayers campaign and the connection of the Spike’s story with Buffy comics… I don’t think that Spike finding about the slayer’s hate before it to appear on Buffy story is wrong, it makes sense for me. Is not wrong that Spike has found out about the Slayer’s hatred in Vegas first, and he already knew about that hatred when he arrived in Buffy’s story. I don’t see him to being surprised about it. Maybe he was a bit surprised to find out that this Slayer’s hatred is developed into a massive anti-slayers movement.
Maybe W&H have started the anti-slayers campaign in Las Vegas and year before Harmony and the official the anti-slayer movement? Maybe they sowed the first seeds of that hatred. Maybe with that musical W&H have fulfilled an order to his new client?
My speculations - W&H as supernatural demon lawyers, are representing the interest of Twilight – the higher universe who wants to be born. They probably have no idea about the real nature of their client, or maybe they have – we don’t have an idea what the hell the Senior Partners are and what exactly they want. And have you noticed that the skin of the Black Panther, who has representing the Senior Partners before, is lying dead on the floor now? Maybe someone else, but not the SP, is leading (managing) W & H now?. What if it’s Twilight? And all the Cirque Du non-slay makes sense then – it’s not only a mocking with Season 8, as some people think, it’s a connection. If the W & H have a connection with Twilight universe or they are Twilight, that could explain why Angel became their pawn. I think Twilight – the New Universe needs of a superpower Slayer (Buffy) and of a vampire with a soul to give a birth to it (a vampire with a soul from Aurelius bloodline, and one of the Buffy’s true loves). In this issue W&H are trying to take Spike on their side - the bottle and the spilled wine appears, just like in Riley one shot – is it a coincidence? Are they ordered that bottle, that “cup of the torment” to the both vampires, to the both Buffy’s true lovers?
W & H haven’t mentioned about the “preventing” of the apocalypse or what exactly they want of Spike only because they were interrupted by John’s actions.
I haven’t read Angel’s new issue yet – I will buy it on HC, but reading the Buffyversefantic script W&H appear in Angel’s comics too and showed him a ruined world – another coincidence? The powers behind W & H are doing the same with Angel in LA – trying to take him on their side, for their purposes.
I think the attempt to take Spike for W&H/Twilight pawn wouldn’t be successful – Spike’s so different than Angel - he’s not so persuadable, i.e. he’s not a destiny bitch. And Spike always will choose Buffy above everything. So Twilight/SP/W&H have chosen Angel. And as I said before Angel is persuadable and easy to misled– he listens to some voices – the voice of Whistler, the voice of PTB, the voice of Twilight, but he has never listen the voice of his own heart – that’s why he is easy to manipulate, that’s why he became Twilight’s pawn.
And that could explain and Spike’s reaction on Buffy issue 36 when he saw the footage of Twilight on his laptop - Spike knew that it’s Angel behind the mask, because there were only two options someone to wear the Twilight’s mask – Angel or him.
If I’m right I really want to see what’s coming next. And why the next issue is coming out in 23 December?! :( :( That means I will receive it next year! Nooo! :cry: And I’ve looked at the other ebay sellers, no one has Spike 3 for pre-order except the Disposable heroes, so I have no bloody choice - I have to order my copy from them again! :( :?
And I’d like to say something about the art – yeah, I’ve noticed the art-changing in some panels… it wasn’t pleasant – one again I’m so sorry for Franco Urru and I think Mooney is better choice than Zanni…
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Postby Jean-Vic » Wed Nov 24, 2010 9:01 am

Veiriti wrote:
My speculations - W&H as supernatural demon lawyers, are representing the interest of Twilight – the higher universe who wants to be born. They probably have no idea about the real nature of their client, or maybe they have – we don’t have an idea what the hell the Senior Partners are and what exactly they want. And have you noticed that the skin of the Black Panther, who has representing the Senior Partners before, is lying dead on the floor now? Maybe someone else, but not the SP, is leading (managing) W & H now?. What if it’s Twilight? And all the Cirque Du non-slay makes sense then – it’s not only a mocking with Season 8, as some people think, it’s a connection. If the W & H have a connection with Twilight universe or they are Twilight, that could explain why Angel became their pawn. I think Twilight – the New Universe needs of a superpower Slayer (Buffy) and of a vampire with a soul to give a birth to it (a vampire with a soul from Aurelius bloodline, and one of the Buffy’s true loves). In this issue W&H are trying to take Spike on their side - the bottle and the spilled wine appears, just like in Riley one shot – is it a coincidence? Are they ordered that bottle, that “cup of the torment” to the both vampires, to the both Buffy’s true lovers?
W & H haven’t mentioned about the “preventing” of the apocalypse or what exactly they want of Spike only because they were interrupted by John’s actions.
I haven’t read Angel’s new issue yet – I will buy it on HC, but reading the Buffyversefantic script W&H appear in Angel’s comics too and showed him a ruined world – another coincidence? The powers behind W & H are doing the same with Angel in LA – trying to take him on their side, for their purposes.
I think the attempt to take Spike for W&H/Twilight pawn wouldn’t be successful – Spike’s so different than Angel - he’s not so persuadable, i.e. he’s not a destiny bitch. And Spike always will choose Buffy above everything. So Twilight/SP/W&H have chosen Angel. And as I said before Angel is persuadable and easy to misled– he listens to some voices – the voice of Whistler, the voice of PTB, the voice of Twilight, but he has never listen the voice of his own heart – that’s why he is easy to manipulate, that’s why he became Twilight’s pawn.
And that could explain and Spike’s reaction on Buffy issue 36 when he saw the footage of Twilight on his laptop - Spike knew that it’s Angel behind the mask, because there were only two options someone to wear the Twilight’s mask – Angel or him.


Not to burst your bubble or anything, Veiriti, but W&H aren't interested in Spike, and neither are the Senior Partners. The Shanshu, the destiny that a vampire with a soul will play a pivotal role in The Apocalypse, is and always has been about Angel. In the words of Archduke Sebassis, speaking to Angel, in Not Fade Away, 'Spike is not the threat. You are.'

Secondly, I highly doubt that The Senior Partners are Twilight. Why? Because The Apocalypse in place by the SP is brought about by the inherent evil of humans, not two heroes having sex. Twilight is something new.

How does Spike know its Angel? I don't think it's because Spike was also offered the place. Reason? Because it was always going to be Angel and Buffy. They were pre-destined to do it. Not Spike. Angel wasn't the consolation prize for Twilight. Just like The Senior Partners, Angel is Twilight's focus. Spike is not part of these big master plans or huge prophecies. He's in the background. That's where he prefers to be. Spike will know its Angel because Spike knows Angel. How long have they known each other. About 130 years? They spent a couple of years together over in LA just recently. Maybe Spike recognises his build, or the outift or the dramatics. Maybe, he recognises the fighting style, which is more likely.
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Postby Jean-Vic » Wed Nov 24, 2010 9:11 am

sueworld wrote:
Look at Destiny, The writers might as well have put a list of all of Angel's faults on screen and said, "Look, here is how Spike is a better man!" Oh wait, they did that


Yes, but as you well know the whole point of that set up was not to make Spike look good for the sake of it, but to make Angel doubt himself. A case of the old 'tear em' down before building them up again' kind of thing. The whole plot is there to serve Angels story, and Spike challenging him was just a part of that.

So imo not quite how you're making it seem I'm afraid.


Angel was already doubting himself. That's why he lost, why he made no attempt to stop Spike staking him when he had plenty of time to do so. He was doubting himself before, which caused him to lose to Spike, which caused him to then doubt himself even more concerning the Shanshu which was a new factor.

I had no problem with Spike challenging him, because it's understandable that Spike thinks the way he does because he doesn't know Angel, but Angelus. It's the same vice versa. What annoyed me about it was the fact that they made the blanket statement that Spike is better than Angel because he fought for a soul while Angel was cursed, but never did they rebut that with the fact that Angel with a soul, regardless of how he got it, has saved a lot of lives and done a lot of good and is a hero.

And it wasn't just Destiny. All year long we were reminded time and again about how Spike saved the world the year before, but no mention was made of how Angel did exactly the same facing Jasmine. I don't know, maybe that's just a portrayal of their different characters. Angel isn't one to brag. He sees nothing special in his heroics. (And that's not a dig at SPike by the way.)

All I'm trying to say is, Spike is a hero now and that won't change. There's too much at stake. Spike acting a little off colour in the Angel series sent fans away in droves, yourself included. If he once again became some villain or did bad things, it would not be received well, so they need to and will continue portraying as the quintessential white hat. Again, my opinion.
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Postby Veiriti » Wed Nov 24, 2010 9:58 am

Not to burst your bubble or anything, Veiriti, but W&H aren't interested in Spike, and neither are the Senior Partners. The Shanshu, the destiny that a vampire with a soul will play a pivotal role in The Apocalypse, is and always has been about Angel. In the words of Archduke Sebassis, speaking to Angel, in Not Fade Away, 'Spike is not the threat. You are.'


You didn’t burst anything, Jean-Vic – I’m only speculating here and the other speculations are welcome! :)
Yeah, I know the words of Archduke Sebassis – these high powers tend to underestimate Spike as a threat and maybe that’s their big mistake.
Actually you have a point the High Powers/W&H/Twilight have expected Angel to shows up in Vegas, not Spike... Angel always was their first and best choice - Angel’s soul is a curse; Angel always has a dark side, even when he was a warrior of good. Actually Angel was W&H’s employee, their CEO, their golden boy. And the W&H’s employee stays their employee forever – even his/her death cannot break the contract. Speaking about the Shanshu, I’m curious why the Circle of the Black Thorn made Angel to sign away the Shanshu prophesy with his blood? I think with this act he signed away his humanity. And yeah you’re right – they have chosen him for something, they could easily kill him in the first season yet, but they didn’t – they prefer to keep him alive (well undead) and make him darker and darker. Why they need him corrupted and resigned? Why they keep him alive and in weak human body into their hell? (btw – these aren’t my specs only) And Wesley showed him into the vision that he, Angel will bring back the Apocalypse – and actually he is doing that on Buffy’s comics - Angel’s hands are covered with the blood of the millions. Only Angel is able to fulfill this prophesy (vision).

Secondly, I highly doubt that The Senior Partners are Twilight. Why? Because The Apocalypse in place by the SP is brought about by the inherent evil of humans, not two heroes having sex. Twilight is something new.


Well, the Senior Partners probably are dead (the skin of the dead Black Panther on the floor of the White Room) Maybe someone else took their place, someone new, and it is speaking thru the Jeremy’s body. We know that Twilight loves to possess and to speak thru the bodies of the dogs, cats, Whistler, etc. :wink:

Spike will know its Angel because Spike knows Angel. How long have they known each other. About 130 years? They spent a couple of years together over in LA just recently. Maybe Spike recognises his build, or the outift or the dramatics. Maybe, he recognises the fighting style, which is more likely.


Well, huh, :D :D :lol: according with the preview pages of issue 39 and something mentioned on ATS season 5 Angel and Spike were more than co-workers, partners and rivals…:wink:
Buffy was Angel’s lover either, she knows him, but she didn’t recognize him (not his body shape or his fighting style) during their encounter in The Beautiful Sunset. And Spike did it only by an YT footage… A point for Spangel vs Bangel? :lol: Don’t think so. Spike knew something about Twilight (and Angel) and I hope we will find it out soon. :)
Last edited by Veiriti on Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Jean-Vic » Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:14 pm

Veiriti wrote:You didn’t burst anything, Jean-Vic – I’m only speculating here and the other speculations are welcome! :)
Yeah, I know the words of Archduke Sebassis – these high powers tend to underestimate Spike as a threat and maybe that’s their big mistake.
Actually you have a point the High Powers/W&H/Twilight have expected Angel to shows up in Vegas, not Spike... Angel always was their first and best choice - Angel’s soul is a curse; Angel always has a dark side, even when he was a warrior of good. Actually Angel was W&H’s employee, their CEO, their golden boy. And the W&H’s employee stays their employee forever – even his/her death cannot break the contract. Speaking about the Shanshu, I’m curious why the Circle of the Black Thorn made Angel to sign away the Shanshu prophesy with his blood? I think with this act he signed away his humanity. And yeah you’re right – they have chosen him for something, they could easily kill him in the first season yet, but they didn’t – they prefer to keep him alive (well undead) and make him darker and darker. Why they need him corrupted and resigned? Why they keep him alive and in weak human body into their hell? (btw – these aren’t my specs only) And Wesley showed him into the vision that he, Angel will bring back the Apocalypse – and actually he is doing that on Buffy’s comics - Angel’s hands are covered with the blood of the millions. Only Angel is able to fulfill this prophesy (vision).


Actually, no, on all points. These higher powers aren't underestimating Spike. He just isn't the one who was pre-destined. Prophecies come true. There is no stopping that, as the series showed. In Origin, Angel could have killed Sahjann but Vail insisted that it had to be Connor because the prophecy said it would be Connor. The Shanshu prophecy is about Angel. No one else. So, if he is the catalyst of The Apocalypse, of course higher powers will focus on him. I don't know, maybe it comes down to the fact that Angel (and Buffy) are the leads, or put another way, the most important characters in the stories. That's reflected in the story.

Oh, yes, Angel has a dark side, but he fights it and he saves a lot of people. Spike is no different. Spike isn't superior to Angel in any way, and I'm yet to see anything that contradicts me.

Yes, Angel was the SP's employee, but their Golden Boy?? Didn't you watch Angel Season 5?? He worked them from the inside. He used his position to kill their most powerful agents on Earth. He fooled everyone and halted The Apocalypse (for a while). As for being their employee forever, I doubt that there is a perpetuity clause in their contracts. That was something for the evil guys. I doubt Angel would have allowed it, allowed his friends to be bound to that place forever. And, as there is no evidence or point in the show or comics that Angel and the others had perpetuity clauses, we can assume that they don't.

As for the Shanshu, you're asking questions that have been resolved in the show and comics. Why did he have to sign it with blood? Because that is the only way to remove yourself from the prophecy. If it had been filed Angel would not be able to become human after he plays his pivotal role. And again, yes, Angel could have been wiped off the face of the earth by the SP, numerous times over, but he wasn't because they need him alive to fulfil his "destiny" of playing a pivotal role. What is that role? Well, as the show establishes, it's an ambiguous one. He will choose a side one day. The PTB want him on theirs and the SP want him on theirs. They're trying to make him darker so he joins them, gives up, but so far they haven't been able to do so.

Why do they need him human in hell? Torment. He was in hell, people were suffering and dying and he couldn't do a thing. Again, it's in the comics.

As for the vision, that isn't a definite. Visions don't always come true. As for what he's doing as Twilight... again, read what he's doing. He isn't trying to destroy the world. First time round, he was foolishly trying to create a new reality because, in his words, they'd lost the war. Something happened to him and he wanted to create a new reality. But, he turned back to good with Buffy and began helping. Now, he is being controlled by Twilight and isn't doing anything.

As for Angel's future, well, I don't see how it's anything but as a good guy considering that Angel is getting his own series over at Dark Horse. He'll be the lead character again and he'll be a good guy. For the foreseeable future, he isn't going to be causing any apocalypses. He's played a part in this one, but so did Buffy, and yet no one is blaming her. They were co-equal creators of Twilight, and the blood is on their hands. Angel makes mistakes, but he makes them right in the end. It's why he's a hero.

I know you want him desperately to be the villain, but he isn't.
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Postby Double Dutchess » Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:25 pm

Jean-Vic wrote:As for being their employee forever, I doubt that there is a perpetuity clause in their contracts. That was something for the evil guys. I doubt Angel would have allowed it, allowed his friends to be bound to that place forever. And, as there is no evidence or point in the show or comics that Angel and the others had perpetuity clauses, we can assume that they don't.


But Wesley did have one -- it's why ghost!Wesley was "the last official representative of Wolfram & Hart" in After the Fall. (I'm tempted to say, "Didn't you read AtF?" :wink: )
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Postby Veiriti » Wed Nov 24, 2010 2:37 pm

I know you want him desperately to be the villain, but he isn't.

No, actually I don't want him to be a villain. But like it or not he is a villain on Buffy Season 8. We still don't know the whole story and why he is acting like a villain, but he did all these crimes and willingly or not he brought back the Apocalypse (again)... I don't know what they will do to whitewash the character and to make him a hero again in the new DH Angel's series. Or they will make him to suffer again, this time from his own actions... who knows, we'll see... That what I want is Angel to get his own series far away of Buffy's story. I'd like Cordy to returns again and to help him in his redemption. I'd like Angel to stop to listen these voices of the destiny and finally to hear the voice of his own heart...
Here is an interesting essay about Angel's character thru the whole Buffy and Angel's seasons, not only me is thinking that he is a flawed hero
http://angearia.livejournal.com/191028.html#cutid1
About Buffy's blaming... She has been involved into that destruction of the world by Angel and Twilight's destiny plan. So by my opinion she has no guilt...
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Postby Jean-Vic » Wed Nov 24, 2010 3:46 pm

Double Dutchess wrote:
Jean-Vic wrote:As for being their employee forever, I doubt that there is a perpetuity clause in their contracts. That was something for the evil guys. I doubt Angel would have allowed it, allowed his friends to be bound to that place forever. And, as there is no evidence or point in the show or comics that Angel and the others had perpetuity clauses, we can assume that they don't.


But Wesley did have one -- it's why ghost!Wesley was "the last official representative of Wolfram & Hart" in After the Fall. (I'm tempted to say, "Didn't you read AtF?" :wink: )


Did it say he had a perpetuity clause? Were the words used? They had contracts. Those contracts run for a period of time. Wesley and the others were still under contract at the end of Season 5. Perpetuity clause, though? Not mentioned. I doubt very much, again, that that would be signed.

Veiriti, no, Angel is not the villain. Twilight is. Angel is once again the guy who makes mistakes but tries to make them right. He has motivations for what he did. Wasn't it all about creating a new world, a perfect world? The guy was coming off whatever happened in LA. He has done bad things in Season 8, but in the true sense of the word villain, he isn't one.

As for accepting he is a flawed hero: Why do you think he is my favourite character? I like flaws, and conflict. I don't like characters that are goody goody can do no wrong types, like Buffy for instance.

And you want him away from Buffy so Spike can have her. No need to sugarcoat it. :D
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Postby Double Dutchess » Wed Nov 24, 2010 3:57 pm

Jean-Vic wrote:
Double Dutchess wrote:
Jean-Vic wrote:As for being their employee forever, I doubt that there is a perpetuity clause in their contracts. That was something for the evil guys. I doubt Angel would have allowed it, allowed his friends to be bound to that place forever. And, as there is no evidence or point in the show or comics that Angel and the others had perpetuity clauses, we can assume that they don't.


But Wesley did have one -- it's why ghost!Wesley was "the last official representative of Wolfram & Hart" in After the Fall. (I'm tempted to say, "Didn't you read AtF?" :wink: )


Did it say he had a perpetuity clause? Were the words used? They had contracts. Those contracts run for a period of time. Wesley and the others were still under contract at the end of Season 5. Perpetuity clause, though? Not mentioned. I doubt very much, again, that that would be signed.


I assumed that contract extending after death = perpetuity clause. I can see the difference in semantics, though. I guess I wouldn't be a good lawyer making such fine distinctions. So you think that Angel would not have allowed a perpetuity clause, while being fine with a clause binding them to W&H after death (though not for ever)? It seems unlikely he would have agreed to either of those things, which makes me think he just didn't read all the fine print, and perpetuity is not excluded either.
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Postby Jean-Vic » Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:03 pm

Double Dutchess wrote:I assumed that contract extending after death = perpetuity clause. I can see the difference in semantics, though. I guess I wouldn't be a good lawyer making such fine distinctions. So you think that Angel would not have allowed a perpetuity clause, while being fine with a clause binding them to W&H after death (though not for ever)? It seems unlikely he would have agreed to either of those things, which makes me think he just didn't read all the fine print, and perpetuity is not excluded either.


We're looking at this from supernatural terms here. In reality (I study law so I know this) a contract has to run until the services, payment etc are rendered, otherwise the contract is breached. If they have all signed, then they are bound to W&H until the contract runs out. That's just law. Until the contract expires, Angel, Wes, Gunn are their's. Difference is, Wes is dead. They can bring him back because of that under the terms of the contract. Doesn't mean it's eternal.

Again, looking at it from the different pov, why would Angel, who hates this company and doesn't want anything to do with it, taking the job for his son's sake, sign something that means he and his friends are eternal employees of them? I just don't see it happening.
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Postby Double Dutchess » Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:15 pm

OK, so the "forever" part may be wrong, but Veiriti's point still stands: assuming Angel's contract wasn't breached, he's still officially an employee of W&H. (Depending on the terms of service specified in the contract.) Or do you think the disappearance of the LA office breached the contract?
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Postby Jean-Vic » Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:19 pm

Double Dutchess wrote:OK, so the "forever" part may be wrong, but Veiriti's point still stands: assuming Angel's contract wasn't breached, he's still officially an employee of W&H. (Depending on the terms of service specified in the contract.) Or do you think the disappearance of the LA office breached the contract?


Can I also just say that this isn't a plot point. :D It's never come up. Probably never will, but this is the first time I've ever heard anyone suggest the contract is still important. As far as I'm concerned, it's just another dig at Angel, which are so frequent nowadays.
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Postby Double Dutchess » Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:32 pm

Jean-Vic wrote:Can I also just say that this isn't a plot point. :D It's never come up. Probably never will, but this is the first time I've ever heard anyone suggest the contract is still important. As far as I'm concerned, it's just another dig at Angel, which are so frequent nowadays.


But it could be an (as yet unrevealed) plot point. Possible Angel-bashing aside, I do like Veiriti's W&H connection theory. It would be a neat way to tie the Angel and Buffy comics together.
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Postby Jean-Vic » Thu Nov 25, 2010 5:55 am

Double Dutchess wrote:
Jean-Vic wrote:Can I also just say that this isn't a plot point. :D It's never come up. Probably never will, but this is the first time I've ever heard anyone suggest the contract is still important. As far as I'm concerned, it's just another dig at Angel, which are so frequent nowadays.


But it could be an (as yet unrevealed) plot point. Possible Angel-bashing aside, I do like Veiriti's W&H connection theory. It would be a neat way to tie the Angel and Buffy comics together.


I doubt the Buffy/Angel creators have such intelligence to make a plot point like that.
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Postby Veiriti » Thu Nov 25, 2010 6:08 am

Veiriti, no, Angel is not the villain. Twilight is. Angel is once again the guy who makes mistakes but tries to make them right. He has motivations for what he did. Wasn't it all about creating a new world, a perfect world?


Oh, yeah, Jean-Vic, of course Angel is not a villain, he just tried to create a brand new world only for himself and to keep Buffy in it for his selfish purposes, while her friends and the old world are dying… In the beginning Angel wasn’t possessed, he had a choice! I know that Angel has been duped and mislead of some unholy high powers, but that doesn’t make him less guilty.
Actually Hitler wanted the same – to create a new perfect world, his Third Reich, upon the bodies of the millions dead. Yeah… The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

And you want him away from Buffy so Spike can have her. No need to sugarcoat it.

Yeah, I want Angel AWAY from Buffy, not because Spike can have her – in this point of the story where the world is into a blood and ruins I don’t see Buffy in a romantic sense with no one of her vampires. I’m not like some fans who still are thinking that even after all that mass destruction, Angel and Buffy could live together ever after… I want Angel away from Buffy, because when he is around her he always is turning into a monster, mass murder, or into a boring git (Buffy season 3) and when he’s around her he brings her only a pain. Angel is cool in his own story with his friends and his son.
And if you didn’t mention that’s a thread about Spike # 2, not about Angel’s or Buffy’s comics, so let to discuss the issue, Spike and his gang. I didn’t want to argue with you who are better Spike or Angel; I wanted to discuss some clues which may be a connection with Buffy Season 8, like dead panther, the Cirque Du Slay and the appearance of W&H and their contact with Spike. Oh, and you said W&H aren't interested in Spike, why then they are putting these efforts to make a contact with him and trying to take him on their side? But you obviously haven’t read the issue, have you? And you haven’t read and Illyria’s issue that why you didn’t know about Illyria’s conversations with Angel and Spike…

ETA:
I doubt the Buffy/Angel creators have such intelligence to make a plot point like that.


We have been told that Spike’s series will be directly connected with Buffy Season 8. And I do believe to the creators. That’s why I’m looking for these clues well, I have to admit I still don’t see some clear connections… I’m curious about the Willow’s appearance (role) into the Spike’s story and why the all covers showed them so intimate…
Image
Spike - "Love like that makes you stronger than anything... you CAN SAVE THE WORLD WITH A LOVE LIKE THAT."
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Veiriti
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