My thoughts

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Postby Troynos » Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:43 am

The problem with having a non-human lead, you need to have a valid reason why that character is in a human city (or elf, but starting off in a Dwarf city is a whole other set of issues/problems to contend with right off the start).

Think about it. Why would a Dwarf be running a band of adventurers out of a human city? Need to establish right off the bat why he's there.

Could it be done? Sure. But why go and compound the initial problems right off the bat if you don't have to?

I don't like doing things just for the sake of doing them, which forcing a non-human leader into a human (which I'm assuming the city is, and makes sense) city would be.

You already have to establish the world (or at least the local area), the reason the group is together, the city, the various abilities and personalities of the group (as well as the local people) and so much more for a large scope book like this. That's alot to deal with right off the bat.

Going with a typical set up allows some of those issues to be adjusted, moved around, gotten rid of, etc.. and allows for more focus on personality of all the group as well as the surroundings (which is bigger in a book like D&D then it is in a typical super hero book).
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Postby Sprite » Mon Jun 07, 2010 2:03 pm

I suppose it depends on the set-up, whether the band of adventurers is already together and whether you start at the beginning of their adventures or when they're already established as a band.

Dragonlance Chronicles started with a band of people rejoining after some years apart and though it started in a human village, it had a half-elf leader and some nonhuman characters. And for the beginning of the adventure, it would not have mattered much what kind of race the leader was.

For one thing, you can have the starting point be a trading city, where humans, halflings, elves and dwarves come together to trade. That would give suitable explanation why they were all there, why we could have a mixed party and it might even offer an adventure hook to start with (something got stolen, a trading caravan got robbed, etc.).

Really, it doesn't take that much.
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Postby Troynos » Tue Jun 08, 2010 7:59 am

No it doesn't take much, but then it doesn't take much to make a "cliche" group work and be new and different either.


Without knowing more details (about the city, or about how the group gets/got together), can't really say one way or another if a traditional group will work better for the story or something more untraditional would have been better.

Doing something just for the sake of being different is wrong and generally can make the stories worse. If there's a story reason for it, then anything can work, but it has to make sense within the context of the story set up.
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Postby Sprite » Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:32 am

I'm not disputing that... but it would have been nice to start with something different. A good writer can make it work either way.
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Postby Troynos » Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:48 am

Why? What is wrong with a more traditional cast. Just because it's been done before doesn't make it wrong.

The execution is what makes it wrong.
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Postby azraelklk » Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:07 am

Nobody is saying it is wrong. They are saying something not seen hundreds of times would be nice. This is a group I would like to see.

Paladin, halfelven, leader
Assassin/Ranger, human male, strikers/leader
Necromancer, halfling, controller
Druid, dwarf male, controller
Avenger, Elven, striker
Cleric, undecided, defender
Shadowknight, unknown, defender.
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Postby Sprite » Tue Jun 08, 2010 1:00 pm

A halfling necromancer sounds aces! :mrgreen:
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Postby azraelklk » Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:19 am

Yea, I see him moving around typical hobbit fashion, avoiding detection, and unleashing wave upon wave of creatures on guys who can't figure out where the damn Necromancer is at.

"Hey buddy, look down!"
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Postby Troynos » Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:23 am

azraelklk wrote:Nobody is saying it is wrong. They are saying something not seen hundreds of times would be nice.


Why? What difference does it make if the story and the characters are good.

Besides "it's been done before" (which really isn't a valid reason to dislike something), there just isn't enough information to be able to make any kind of judgement on the group.

Taking a "cliche" group and making them stand out can be more difficult (writing-wise) and lead to better stories.

I'd actually find it easier to write a non-cliche group.
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Postby Sprite » Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:18 am

I could move this to the sexism thread and clamour for a female leader. :P

Seriously, the leader's never female! :shock:
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Postby azraelklk » Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:11 am

True that. I can't remember EVER seeing a female lead.
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Postby azraelklk » Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:20 am

Troynos wrote:
azraelklk wrote:Nobody is saying it is wrong. They are saying something not seen hundreds of times would be nice.


Why? What difference does it make if the story and the characters are good.

Besides "it's been done before" (which really isn't a valid reason to dislike something), there just isn't enough information to be able to make any kind of judgement on the group.

Taking a "cliche" group and making them stand out can be more difficult (writing-wise) and lead to better stories.

I'd actually find it easier to write a non-cliche group.


Once again, no one is saying they don't like it or it is wrong, just seeing something new would be nice. I can write one as well as the other myself. As long as the character personalities aren't cliched to the class type I am good.

I would be happy with a traditional class leader being female as well just to see something different.
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Postby Troynos » Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:58 am

Dragonlance had a female lead.

Advanced Dungeons & Dragons was an atypical group (female warrior lead, dwarf thief, Elven mage, Centaur).
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Postby Sprite » Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:00 am

I know. I was teasing. :P
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Postby Troynos » Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:10 am

Come to think of it, all the old DC D&D books had atypical set-ups.

Forgotten Realms was probably the closest (human paladin, elf priest, human mage, halfling thief) but the rest was very atypical (oriental settings warrior, golem). And I wouldn't call the elf priest a typical priest either.

AD&D as stated above.

Spelljammers had a winged girl and uhm.. I forget but I know it wasn't that typical, lol
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