Angel #32 - Still not Twilight (thank God)...

Drop any comments about Joss Whedon's Angel, Spike or any of the related titles in this space, whether you have a soul or not.

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Postby Deborahmm » Sat May 08, 2010 12:15 pm

Veiriti wrote:
I loathed Connor saying Spike is 'an eternal dick'

WOW! Really?!:shock: That bloody little bastard said that! I hate him more! I still haven’t my copy, but reading these comments… Yeah, I’m very disappointed by Willingham arc… The art only one good thing in these current series...
I miss Brian Lynch… a lot! :cry:


I actually like Connor as a character, Veiriti. I just meant that I don't see him talking about Spike this way (and the character means it as a compliment) after the events of After the Fall. Also, I really wish you would moderate your language a little.
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Postby Veiriti » Sat May 08, 2010 12:30 pm

Deborahmm wrote:
Veiriti wrote:
I loathed Connor saying Spike is 'an eternal dick'

WOW! Really?!:shock: That bloody little bastard said that! I hate him more! I still haven’t my copy, but reading these comments… Yeah, I’m very disappointed by Willingham arc… The art only one good thing in these current series...
I miss Brian Lynch… a lot! :cry:


I actually like Connor as a character, Veiriti. I just meant that I don't see him talking about Spike this way (and the character means it as a compliment) after the events of After the Fall. Also, I really wish you would moderate your language a little.

Actually I liked Connor on ATF series, but I disliked him on Angel TV series. And I can't stand him at all on the current Angel series. As I mentioned above I didn't read the issue yet, but 'an eternal dick' doesn't sound like a compliment to me, especially about Spike... :x So, excuse me about my language, but the "little bastard" is my "compliment" to Connor! :?
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Postby Double Dutchess » Sat May 08, 2010 1:51 pm

Deborahmm wrote:I think I'll have to give this book up afer all. I'll do what Double Dutchess is doing and read what everyone else has to say and then decide in the long run whether to buy the TPBs.


Thanks for providing a counterbalance to the positive comments about the issue. I am definitely not going spend any money on single issues for this arc, but I suspect that in the end I will still buy the collection, if only for the pretty pictures and the Eddie Hope story. Though I'm still torn about it; I'd rather not support Willingham's arc unless we get a satisfactory explanation for the characters being so "off" (and I'm still worried we won't, Mariah Huehner's messages notwithstanding).
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Postby angeliclestat » Sun May 09, 2010 12:53 pm

I was looking at the title of this issue (Roman a clef) and I was wondering what the significence was. Well I looked it up on Wikipedia and apparently it's a literary device.

This is what Wikipedia had to say:

A roman à clef or roman à clé (French for "novel with a key", French pronunciation: /ʁɔ.mɑ̃n a kle/ ) is a novel describing real life, behind a façade of fiction.[1] "Key" in this context means a table one can use to swap out the names, see figure.

The reasons an author might choose the roman à clef format include:

Satire
Writing about controversial topics and/or reporting inside information on scandals without giving rise to charges of libel
The opportunity to turn the tale the way the author would like it to have gone
The opportunity to portray personal, autobiographical experiences without having to expose the author as the subject
Avoiding self-incrimination or incrimination of others that could be used as evidence in civil, criminal, or disciplinary proceedings



Is it just a play on words (on ALex Romans name) or does it have any bearing on the plot I wonder?
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Postby James17930 » Sun May 09, 2010 9:04 pm

I'm so, so disappointed that Willingham is currently running this title into the ground. Why can't IDW see this and get someone in who actually knows these characters?
My take on the IDW Angel series: http://culturatti.com/?s=legna
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Postby Shade of Pale » Mon May 10, 2010 9:28 am

I've read this issue over the weekend and I'm still finding it all kind of confusing. I know that the characters are supposed to be acting out of character and that I need to be in 'wait and see' mode, but again, I found myself really disliking Spike as well as being slightly irritated by Gunn and Connor. Until all is revealed and I can get a real handle on how Bill is going to write these characters when they are being written as behaving more 'in character again, then I think confusion will continue.

Just a few points.

Connor makes a big point of saying how he still trusts Spike - probably meaning that at the moment he can't. All of which makes me think that whatever changes Spike has undergone it must be something pretty drastic.

I liked that Connor and Gunn are finally getting their differences out in the open. It was hard to see Connor act so bratty(because I love Connor) and Gunn not being at his best either, but at least emotions are being bought into play which I've missed from the story so far. Again, though, I'm not sure how much they are being affected by the AtF stress disorder which seems to be affecting everyone.

I was relieved Angel was back and seemingly, 'in character.' Maybe what's driving the others loco is not affecting him.

Loved the art. Will miss Brian Denham.

Liked Gwen tricking Eddie.

I suppose overall the feelings I came out with following the comic were somewhere along the lines of worried, puzzled, but intrigued enough to continue reading because I want to find out what on earth( or any other dimension, or time continuum or phase variance) has happened to all the characters.
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Postby Jean-Vic » Mon May 10, 2010 10:15 am

Shade of Pale wrote:
I was relieved Angel was back and seemingly, 'in character.' Maybe what's driving the others loco is not affecting him.



And what's the one thing Angel hasn't encountered that the rest have? The demon warriors.
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Postby Deborahmm » Mon May 10, 2010 11:18 am

Always nice to know what you think , Shade of Pale, because your review is always so fair and balanced. I'm afraid I'm still in the not liking it at all camp.

Shade of Pale wrote:I've read this issue over the weekend and I'm still finding it all kind of confusing. I know that the characters are supposed to be acting out of character and that I need to be in 'wait and see' mode, but again, I found myself really disliking Spike as well as being slightly irritated by Gunn and Connor. Until all is revealed and I can get a real handle on how Bill is going to write these characters when they are being written as behaving more 'in character again, then I think confusion will continue.


See, the problem for me is that, though Mariah said there was a reason why Spike was behaving the way he was, she didn't actually say it was because there was something physically wrong with him. She just said there was a reason for his behaviour and we would get an explanation for it. The same, I assume, holds true for the other characters. Which or course leaves us with an utterly unlikeable Spike for however many issues.

Shade of Pale wrote:Connor makes a big point of saying how he still trusts Spike - probably meaning that at the moment he can't. All of which makes me think that whatever changes Spike has undergone it must be something pretty drastic.


I can't think why Connor trusts him. I wouldn't.

Shade of Pale wrote:I liked that Connor and Gunn are finally getting their differences out in the open. It was hard to see Connor act so bratty(because I love Connor) and Gunn not being at his best either, but at least emotions are being bought into play which I've missed from the story so far. Again, though, I'm not sure how much they are being affected by the AtF stress disorder which seems to be affecting everyone.


I'm sceptical about this 'stress disorder' until it's revealed it actually exists. I still think this is just how Bill Willingham sees the characters, and again, as with Spike, it's not that they are entirely OOC, just that only their unpleasant characteristics are present.

Hmm, maybe they all left their souls behind in Hell?

Actually, no, that doesn't work, since everyone was perfectly okay in A: AtF 17.
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Postby Shade of Pale » Tue May 11, 2010 5:33 am

Deborahmm wrote:Always nice to know what you think , Shade of Pale, because your review is always so fair and balanced. I'm afraid I'm still in the not liking it at all camp.



Thanks, although I think alot of my 'fairness' is because I'm an inveterate 'fence sitter.' It's just as well that it's highly unlikely that the Conservative Party or the Labour Party will be approaching me any time soon to form a coalition ! :)

Mariah may not have talked about there being anything physically wrong with the characters, but Spike's limbs now explode when severed, so something is physically different, or different rules now apply for Vampires in LA. Perhaps you are right and their souls did stay in Hell ! It's a good working theory despite the narrative difficulties. Angel is still Angel though.
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Postby Jean-Vic » Tue May 11, 2010 7:04 am

Shade of Pale wrote: Angel is still Angel though.


And he never met the demon warriors that worship Connor, who aren't exactly good are they.
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Postby Shade of Pale » Tue May 11, 2010 7:14 am

Jean-Vic wrote:
Shade of Pale wrote: Angel is still Angel though.


And he never met the demon warriors that worship Connor, who aren't exactly good are they.



No, they may well be a law unto themselves - with their own agenda.
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Postby Veiriti » Tue May 11, 2010 12:07 pm

Hmm, maybe they all left their souls behind in Hell?

Actually, no, that doesn't work, since everyone was perfectly okay in A: AtF 17.

Spike and Angel were fine on "Boys and Their Toys" either. I've enjoyed these two issues a lot. Maybe the explanation about why they are getting wrong is not because of losing their souls behind in the Hell, neither because of the Senior Partners! :lol:
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Postby angeliclestat » Tue May 11, 2010 12:22 pm

Shade of Pale wrote:
Jean-Vic wrote:
Shade of Pale wrote: Angel is still Angel though.


And he never met the demon warriors that worship Connor, who aren't exactly good are they.



No, they may well be a law unto themselves - with their own agenda.


Well according to the solicitation for #35 they do take the law into their own hands and start to do what Gunn's gang did all the way back in 'This old gang of mine' and start slaughtering the baddies (human and demon) without thought and Angel and the gang have to find a way to stop them.
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Postby Vampire in Rug » Wed May 12, 2010 3:21 am

I'm interested to see what Connor's army's true intentions are.

Well according to the solicitation for #35 they do take the law into their own hands and start to do what Gunn's gang did all the way back in 'This old gang of mine' and start slaughtering the baddies (human and demon) without thought


Isn't that exactly what the Potentates are doing? In fact, whatever happened to that storyline?
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Postby anca » Fri May 14, 2010 11:11 pm

I knew I was right to be upset on Mr. Willingham! Rrrrargh! Right now it's close and personal :evil:

"Cine esti tu, oameni? Romani?" it's the WORST (translated) line in Romanian I ever encountered, worst than Willow's bubbled spell when restoring Angel's soul, worst than "Calusari" from X-Files!

Ok, just kidding! But seriously, comic guys, try better next time>
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