Bill Willingham talks Angel at C2E2 2010.

Drop any comments about Joss Whedon's Angel, Spike or any of the related titles in this space, whether you have a soul or not.

Moderators: Ryall, Bobby Curnow, Mariah

Bill Willingham talks Angel at C2E2 2010.

Postby sueworld » Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:28 pm

He drops some pretty big spoilers about what's to come... it pertains to Spike.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page ... e&id=25866

Sorry but to me this comes across as being so incredibly weak. Does he actually get Spikes character at all? I mean really?? :roll:
"They talk about me in the chatty rooms?" - Angel.
User avatar
sueworld
Transforumer
 
Posts: 1217
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:51 pm

Postby Jean-Vic » Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:48 pm

That is hilarious. He's gone from portraying Spike as a womanizing, amoral jerk who you could barely tell has a soul, to an immature kid jealous of Angel who now uses underhand tactics to move things his way. I'm sorry, but while Spike may have expressed a desire at one point for the shanshu prophecy, it always seemed to me that he lost interest in it when he realised it was and always shall be Angel's. And he has certainly never been big on having his name in the papers. He isn't as grandiose as that. This just seems very very strange.

And, when Angel is about heroes and their journeys, and this is a very important time for Spike in his quest to be a hero, why is he acting like a complete douche?? It's as if Willingham is writing him in a way that he doesn't care about being a champion, he just wants to get laid and get famous.
I'm so glad I'm an Asshole!
User avatar
Jean-Vic
Transforumer
 
Posts: 1488
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 7:23 pm
Location: Blackpool, England

Postby Buffyversefantic » Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:18 pm

I think this idea itself is a little out there but they did sort of set up this sort of thing on the show in season 3 with Sahjhan.
User avatar
Buffyversefantic
Transforumer
 
Posts: 3101
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:46 am

Postby Jean-Vic » Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:31 pm

Buffyversefantic wrote:I think this idea itself is a little out there but they did sort of set up this sort of thing on the show in season 3 with Sahjhan.


Yeah, but it was a fake to have Connor killed before he could fight Sahjhan. Angel never fulfilled it. If Spike has lawyers set up a load of prophecies they will just be lies that he can never and will never fulfill.

I'm sorry, but this Spike just isn't the same man from the show or ATF. He's a child. With Brian Lynch doing a Spike series why doesn't Willingham just lay off a character he clearly doesn't understand and can't write and focus on people he can write.

I think any person on this board could write a more convincing Spike story than Willingham can.
I'm so glad I'm an Asshole!
User avatar
Jean-Vic
Transforumer
 
Posts: 1488
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 7:23 pm
Location: Blackpool, England

Postby Buffyversefantic » Tue Apr 20, 2010 5:00 pm

Jean-Vic wrote:
Buffyversefantic wrote:I think this idea itself is a little out there but they did sort of set up this sort of thing on the show in season 3 with Sahjhan.


Yeah, but it was a fake to have Connor killed before he could fight Sahjhan. Angel never fulfilled it. If Spike has lawyers set up a load of prophecies they will just be lies that he can never and will never fulfill.

I'm sorry, but this Spike just isn't the same man from the show or ATF. He's a child. With Brian Lynch doing a Spike series why doesn't Willingham just lay off a character he clearly doesn't understand and can't write and focus on people he can write.

I think any person on this board could write a more convincing Spike story than Willingham can.


I am curious to see how or if the Spike monthly and Angel monthly will line up.The Spike monthly keeps getting pushed back and I've been curious if this is because of Spike usage in the Angel monthly and even Buffy Season 8?I've just been wondering if Brian has to keep modifying his plans or factoring in things due to what's happening in other books?It could just be a simple case of Brian's day job as a screenwriter taking up most of his time and delaying the Spike monthly though.

This plot line does sound like on paper that it ties-in a little to Brian Williams's Spike:The Devil You Know miniseries.Aren't Eddie Hope and Spike supposed to have a talk about the shanshu prophecy in that?Maybe that sets up something Willingham is going to play with?It sounds like it anyway.
Last edited by Buffyversefantic on Tue Apr 20, 2010 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Buffyversefantic
Transforumer
 
Posts: 3101
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:46 am

Postby Bill Williams » Tue Apr 20, 2010 5:03 pm

I wish you guys would judge the book when it comes out and not when it is in the idea stage. It is totally within the Whedon Wheelhouse to radically reset a story for the sake of the story. The question is whether it works or not.

Ask yourself: IF I had written this pitch for ANGEL Season 5 would you have freaked out and slammed it sight unseen...

In this season, Angel and crew move out of the Hyperion and work out of the Wolfram & Hart law offices. Angel is seemingly corrupted by the law firm. Oh, and a beloved cast member dies to make room for a new character.

I think there would have been rending of garments.
Bill Williams
Slayer
 
Posts: 82
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 4:27 pm
Location: Austin, TX

Postby Buffyversefantic » Tue Apr 20, 2010 5:30 pm

Bill Williams wrote:I wish you guys would judge the book when it comes out and not when it is in the idea stage. It is totally within the Whedon Wheelhouse to radically reset a story for the sake of the story. The question is whether it works or not.

Ask yourself: IF I had written this pitch for ANGEL Season 5 would you have freaked out and slammed it sight unseen...

In this season, Angel and crew move out of the Hyperion and work out of the Wolfram & Hart law offices. Angel is seemingly corrupted by the law firm. Oh, and a beloved cast member dies to make room for a new character.

I think there would have been rending of garments.


Actually,I think season 5 was slammed sight unseen when some of the changes to the show were announced.I think every season has had someone slam plans for the upcoming storyline probably.

But I am certainly going to be continuing reading the Angel monthly and will be reading your miniseries and see where everything goes. :)
User avatar
Buffyversefantic
Transforumer
 
Posts: 3101
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:46 am

Postby resa53 » Tue Apr 20, 2010 6:41 pm

Bill Williams wrote:I wish you guys would judge the book when it comes out and not when it is in the idea stage. It is totally within the Whedon Wheelhouse to radically reset a story for the sake of the story. The question is whether it works or not.

Ask yourself: IF I had written this pitch for ANGEL Season 5 would you have freaked out and slammed it sight unseen...

In this season, Angel and crew move out of the Hyperion and work out of the Wolfram & Hart law offices. Angel is seemingly corrupted by the law firm. Oh, and a beloved cast member dies to make room for a new character.

I think there would have been rending of garments.


What ??? Actually wait until something is completed before judging it ... what's the fun in that??? :shock:
resa53
I'm kind of a big deal
 
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:18 pm

Postby hawkedup » Tue Apr 20, 2010 6:53 pm

I'm excited!
hawkedup
Transforumer
 
Posts: 1221
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:41 pm

Postby anca » Tue Apr 20, 2010 9:01 pm

It definitely sucks to be a Spike fan these days.
anca
I'm kind of a big deal
 
Posts: 194
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:35 pm

Postby sueworld » Tue Apr 20, 2010 11:17 pm

Oh and to add insult to injury a friend who's already familiar with Williams past work tells me that this is just a cooked up old Jack of Fables story line. Good grief....
"They talk about me in the chatty rooms?" - Angel.
User avatar
sueworld
Transforumer
 
Posts: 1217
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:51 pm

Postby anca » Tue Apr 20, 2010 11:57 pm

posted by Changeling on whedonesque
This is exactly the beginning of the Jack of Fables storyline, where Jack wants to write himself bigger and more powerful, by buying a Hollywood studio and making movies about himself.

Ok, now I understand the reference.


But why would he say plot things about Spike on a DC panel (the company which publish Fables)? Why would he describe for Spike a similar plot already used for Jack of Fable? Is it possible that Mr. Willingham was just joking about and flattered DC comic audience in doing so?

*desperate Spike fan speaking
anca
I'm kind of a big deal
 
Posts: 194
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:35 pm

Postby DihcarEM » Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:34 am

Buffyversefantic wrote:I am curious to see how or if the Spike monthly and Angel monthly will line up.The Spike monthly keeps getting pushed back and I've been curious if this is because of Spike usage in the Angel monthly and even Buffy Season 8?I've just been wondering if Brian has to keep modifying his plans or factoring in things due to what's happening in other books?It could just be a simple case of Brian's day job as a screenwriter taking up most of his time and delaying the Spike monthly though.

I hope not, i do hope that the delaying of the Spike ongoing is because of season8 which would be great to have continuity between the Spike and Buffy series.
But not the current Angel, i think Brian would do more damage to his series if he were make the Spike fans accept Willingham's story by making them line-up. It's more then obvious these last issues that Spike fans have massively dropped the book and going by Spike's portrayel i really can't blame them.
The Spike series will already be in a dangerous position in that it's the new kid on the block and will have to prove that it can go solo. It really doesn't need the added baggage of terrible storytelling to lower it's odds of survival.

anca wrote:But why would he say plot things about Spike on a DC panel (the company which publish Fables)? Why would he describe for Spike a similar plot already used for Jack of Fable? Is it possible that Mr. Willingham was just joking about and flattered DC comic audience in doing so?

*desperate Spike fan speaking

Sorry Anca but i think it's real. I noticed it all the way back with Willingham's interview with buffyfest that he doesn't have a very high opinion of Spike. And in it he said sorta the same thing, that Spike will start to wonder who writes these prophecies and why can't he be the one.
So no, i don't think that the Spike portrayel is gonna get any better. And even so, for some Spike fans(like DeborahMM) it's already too late, too much damage has been done. I really don't understand how Idw let it get this far, you can't just change an established character into what you want him to be. Bah, what mess. Damn that evil Spike-bot.
DihcarEM
Transforumer
 
Posts: 676
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:47 am
Location: Europe

Postby Shade of Pale » Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:36 am

Bill Williams wrote:I wish you guys would judge the book when it comes out and not when it is in the idea stage.




Of course, you are probably right, but I just don't feel as if I've got any grounds for enthusiasm about this storyline based on how Bill has written Spike in the four issues of the series that we've had so far. :( So far we've had Spike written as a rather unpleasant jerk who is supremely vain and whose main interest in life is when he's next going to get sex. He's not worthy of any sort of respect, he doesn't have any heart and he is more of a nuisance to team Connor/Angel than any sort of help. What sort of prophecies is a guy like this going to write ? Plus, I'm kind of dreading finding out how he got his hands on alot of money. I'm beginning to think that although Bill likes the character of Spike and obviously enjoys writing for him, that he doesn't see him being a hero in anyway, shape or form. This series has already de-evolved Spike significantly imho, I'm just hoping it doesn't get worse. This storyline has the potential to do just that. I just don't have any optimism for Spike's role in this story left.
User avatar
Shade of Pale
Transforumer
 
Posts: 1370
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:46 am
Location: United Kingdom

Postby Veiriti » Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:58 am

I don’t know what to say, guys… I’m so confused about these comics… Why to hell Willingham is writing Spike like Jack of Fables?! I don’t know who to hell Jack of Fables is, and honesty I DON”T wanna know!! I’m a bloody Spike fan and I’m buying all these comics to follow the Spike’s adventures… and I’m terrified what that author is doing with my favorite character. Yeah, I’m not going to judge him now, but I prefer Mr. Willingham to DOES NOT use Spike on his Angel’s comics series! Lets him write about Angel, Gunn, Kate and the others, to make that sniveler Connor a main character… I don’t care, I want to stop buying these series as I did with Aftermath, but I’m still spending my money for that stuff because of Spike … but from the other hand I’m sick to seeing Spike being used at that way on the Angel’s series… So, please, leave Spike alone!
I want a Spike solo monthly series! I want Brian Lynch’s Spike series! Actually I’ve started to buy these comics because of Brian Lynch’s Spike! Only Brian is making Spike’s character authentic!!!
PLEASE, MR. LYNCH SAVE OUR SPIKE!!!!

I noticed it all the way back with Willingham's interview with buffyfest that he doesn't have a very high opinion of Spike.

Of course he doesn’t, DihcarEM, and I think that is because of the Bangelfest… ups, I mean the Buffyfest spikehater’s influence… :x
Image
Spike - "Love like that makes you stronger than anything... you CAN SAVE THE WORLD WITH A LOVE LIKE THAT."
User avatar
Veiriti
Transforumer
 
Posts: 505
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 2:05 am

Next

Return to Angel

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests